[MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

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monkeymissile
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by monkeymissile »

Didn't green science also use steel at some point? Does anyone remember the old recipes for at least the blue/purple science packs using bobs metals? I'm tempted to just temporarily change the recipes myself until the proper update happens.

canadajebus
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by canadajebus »

monkeymissile wrote:Didn't green science also use steel at some point? Does anyone remember the old recipes for at least the blue/purple science packs using bobs metals? I'm tempted to just temporarily change the recipes myself until the proper update happens.
The old recipes are still there in the tweaks\bobsmods folder. I had tried to do this but ended up with errors. Let me know if you have better luck.

UberWaffe
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by UberWaffe »

Hi, All.

Just uploaded a new version for the mod. It contains the first pass of changes for making it use Bobs mods materials.
You can select this option under the ingame mod settings. The default remains vanilla recipes.

v0.15.5
  • Added config options for science pack recipes and intermediates recipes. Vanilla and Bobsmods options available.
  • Slightly tweaked cost configs for normal and uverwaffe.

I've only just started a new playthrough with this setting, and am using Angels ores and refining, so this is essentially still untested in terms of costs and how well it works.
In general the recipes require a wider range of materials (i.e. bobs ores) and will use less iron and copper.

romtos wrote:I just started using this mod after Bob's Extended didn't get updated, since I mostly liked what it did with science. SCT does it even better, though! Now I'm also waiting for the Bob's compatibility (that's the reason I looked up this thread), but I can understand it'll take a while. Science changed a lot in 0.15.

I do have a question, do you plan to reintroduce the logistics science pack of bob's mod when you make it compatible?

Oh, and a tiny bug report/mod compatibility issue: AAI industries changes the SP1 recipe as well, to something very close to vanilla, but slightly higher copper costs. I now tweaked that mod to match the SCT recipe, but I wanted to give a heads-up just in case.

Thanks for your efforts with this mod!
I plan to incorporate Bobs Tech later on, but last time it was an uphill battle, so this will only happen later.
Also, thanks for the heads up on AAI industries. Haven't played with it myself. I'll take a look, probably only needs to be taken into account in the load order.

monkeymissile wrote:Didn't green science also use steel at some point? Does anyone remember the old recipes for at least the blue/purple science packs using bobs metals? I'm tempted to just temporarily change the recipes myself until the proper update happens.
It did, but I felt that steel cost would be better suited to expensive version of recipes.
I still need to do those. Haven't yet.
My idea with expensive is that it will make the recipes require more types of items, rather than just more of the same items.
(Since there is already a multiplier to making science cost more, I'd rather have expensive mean more difficult to make, rather than more expensive.)


As always, let me know if anyone finds any bugs.

romtos
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by romtos »

I've only just started a new playthrough with this setting, and am using Angels ores and refining, so this is essentially still untested in terms of costs and how well it works.
In general the recipes require a wider range of materials (i.e. bobs ores) and will use less iron and copper.
Awesome! Started playing with it anyway. In essence it's exactly what I hoped for, though. :D At first sight it looks good.
Also, thanks for the heads up on AAI industries. Haven't played with it myself. I'll take a look, probably only needs to be taken into account in the load order.
Thanks for looking at it!

Corvenus
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Corvenus »

thanks for a great mod will certainly have to give it a look again with .15

any sort of timescale that you can give us on when you might have the expensive tech version ready to go as more complex is always a good thing in my mind so would love to give it a go

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Trainwreck »

Good work with the bobsmods recipes, they add a nice challenge. I noticed a couple of minor issues when playing with bob's enabled:

1) Power consumption of Bob's lab MK2 is too low. I recall the 0.14 version increased the power consumption to 3MW. Guess that change got lost somewhere in the 0.15 update.

2) I was playing with bobtech, which adds bob's logistic science pack. There were no major issues, but the only lab that would accept the logistic packs was bob's lab MK2. IMHO, the Quantum Interaction lab, and possibly the Full Spectrum Atomics lab should also accept the logistic science pack. Perhaps you could check for the presence of 'logistic-science-pack', and add it to those lab's inputs tables, if present.

Neemys
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Neemys »

UberWaffe wrote:
romtos wrote:(...)

Oh, and a tiny bug report/mod compatibility issue: AAI industries changes the SP1 recipe as well, to something very close to vanilla, but slightly higher copper costs. I now tweaked that mod to match the SCT recipe, but I wanted to give a heads-up just in case.

Thanks for your efforts with this mod!
(...)
Also, thanks for the heads up on AAI industries. Haven't played with it myself. I'll take a look, probably only needs to be taken into account in the load order.
(...)
Redacted by Neemys, see below for information on a fix.
Last edited by Neemys on Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Want more space restriction ? Or maybe you want to be forced to use train for other thing than ore and oil ? Try Building Platform Mod !

Ackos
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Ackos »

Im stuck (missing something), how do i get gold ore (angels mods) for blue science packs?

Neemys
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Neemys »

Ackos wrote:Im stuck (missing something), how do i get gold ore (angels mods) for blue science packs?
Science cost tweaker only change the cost of technology, not the requirement or what they unlocked.

I will still answer you but please use the angel subforum for help with angels mod.

Assuming you have angels and bobs mod, you need to research hydro refining that will unlock Rubyte chunk sorting which will yield gold amongst other things. You need to use that recipe until you research with blue science a way to have gold with mineral catalyst if it is the recipe you want to use.
Want more space restriction ? Or maybe you want to be forced to use train for other thing than ore and oil ? Try Building Platform Mod !

Ackos
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Ackos »

Thanks Neemys i see it now :oops:

Neemys
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Neemys »

@UberWaffe

After Ackos asking for gold recipe I take time to look at the gold requirement for blue bottle in 0.15 and it seem out of place.

Here things as they are now :

In both bobs and angel+bob, for science, gold plate aren't use in blue bottle. In fact they seem to be needed for hightech science pack only. Blue science pack need bronze plate instead. Gold is only use in module that early in the game. That mean that this early, gold should not be processed in large quantity. That is reflected in angels by making a low quantity gold ore recipe unlockable before blue science and a high quantity recipe only unlocked with blue science (to get enough for circuit).

Your mod change that bronze requirement in blue bottle for gold requirement. Making gold needed in high quantity (and making bronze plate useless mostly as the other use for them are some building). It is not such a problem in bob only as we can easily mine and process more gold but it's really painful with angel. I know that you only look at bob to make the mod as there was no angel back then, but angel+bob is used by a lot of people now.

So I recommend changing the gold requirement to bronze plate requirement in blue bottle. If you still want to include gold plate in blue science in your mod as your mod is intended to make thing a bit harder. At least lower the gold requirement and add a bronze plate requirement so you have a reason to make a real bronze smelting chain.

Bronze plate in bobs is used for blue science and pump (via bronze pipe). As with your mod they are not used for science anymore, we don't need a real and big bronze smelting chain.

I just wanted to point that out, I edited the mod myself for bronze plate already and it seem better. Feel free to do as you want, that was just my opinion.
Want more space restriction ? Or maybe you want to be forced to use train for other thing than ore and oil ? Try Building Platform Mod !

Khaim
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Khaim »

I second Neemys' suggestion. I'm just about to start blue science in my Seablock game (Angel+Bob+this, map is only water), and the gold requirement seemed crazy. It makes way more sense progression-wise to use bronze for blue packs.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by mrbaggins »

Can I suggest a mid-ground?

Have bronze be the major component of blue science, but have a little gold necessary.

Keeps gold at ALL being a gateway, but not a throughput one, just a tech gateway. Then makes bronze useful. Then once you're in, focus on the gold specialisation in blue science and you can get the throughput you want.

Daemoria
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Daemoria »

I downloaded this mod, because it solves many of the little inconsistencies remaining in the game. I love having specific intermediate products for use in end-products, and I'm glad that the mod has been partially updated to v.15, as far as I can tell.

The only packs that don't have a production chain is the Logistics Science pack, and the Space science pack. Additionally, the labs don't seem to have specifically expanded support for those packs, either.

Would anyone be interested in a expanded production chain, and specifically, integration with Bob's mod suite? I know I'm not the original mod author for this wonderful mod, but I would love to have a complete product that works with a full Bob/Angel play-through.

---

Also, I'd be willing to work with UberWaffe to provide art. You can see some of my art on my deviantArt gallery [same user name]. I would be really interested to hear from you, if you're still actively updating this mod. (But based on last sign-in date being months ago, this seems unlikely)
Last edited by Daemoria on Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Sirlon »

UberWaffe wrote: Also, thanks for the heads up on AAI industries. Haven't played with it myself. I'll take a look, probably only needs to be taken into account in the load order.
Hello,
Any progress with the AAI Industries compatibility?

Neemys
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Neemys »

Sirlon wrote:
UberWaffe wrote: Also, thanks for the heads up on AAI industries. Haven't played with it myself. I'll take a look, probably only needs to be taken into account in the load order.
Hello,
Any progress with the AAI Industries compatibility?
No answer from the mod author. I took a little time to see what's going on and found a fix. You can download the following updated SCT mod to have the good recipe for red science pack.
ScienceCostTweaker_0.15.5.zip
SCT updated with a fix for AAI industry.
(1.23 MiB) Downloaded 69 times
@UberWaffe

Concerning AAI industry and red pack recipe. You change ingredient in data-final-fixes and AAI in data-update. So your recipe should be the one that work. But, in 0.15, expensives recipes were added and with it a new way to declare ingredient for normal recipe and expensive recipe.

Since AAI use the new way and you the old way, the new way normal recipe have priority over old way recipe. The new way wrap recipe component (ingredient, result, etc) in two new table in the recipe declaration, normal and expensive. Here the fix I integrated for your mod in the zip above as an expample :

Code: Select all

data.raw["recipe"]["science-pack-1"].normal = {
	energy_required = 5,
	ingredients = 
    {
		{"sct-t1-ironcore", 1},
		{"sct-t1-magnet-coils", 2}
    },
	result = "science-pack-1",
	result_count = 1
}
data.raw["recipe"]["science-pack-1"].expensive = {
	energy_required = 5,
	ingredients = 
    {
		{"sct-t1-ironcore", 1},
		{"sct-t1-magnet-coils", 2}
    },
	result = "science-pack-1",
	result_count = 1
}
When you update the mod I recommend that you switch all recipe to the new way to avoid similar problem with other recipe and if you have time why not make specific change for expensive variant ;)

Do note that the expensive declaration is optionnal and that the game will take normal variant even if expensive are checked in map settings and it does not find expensive variant.
Want more space restriction ? Or maybe you want to be forced to use train for other thing than ore and oil ? Try Building Platform Mod !

Sirlon
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Sirlon »

I also noticed that Bob's Logistics adds a purpleish Logistics Science pack that is currently not modified by the SCT mod. Are there plans to replace that pack also with something different?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by crysanja »

With bobs mods, the requirements for brass in the military science pack is immense.
The waste product in the military chain seems wrong too. Transmutation of invar and brass to iron and copper ore.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by Pwez »

Khaim wrote:I second Neemys' suggestion. I'm just about to start blue science in my Seablock game (Angel+Bob+this, map is only water), and the gold requirement seemed crazy. It makes way more sense progression-wise to use bronze for blue packs.
If anyone else wants bronze over gold in blue science packs, you can easily change it yourself:

GO to \tweaks\bobsmods\0_initial.lua and replace gold-plate with bronze-alloy, should be there twice.

canadajebus
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

Post by canadajebus »

Is this mod going to update to 0.16?

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