[MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.3

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mbattjes@gmail.com
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by mbattjes@gmail.com »

I love this mod it's just what i needed. However everything appears to be more expensive or time consuming except for science 4. I always end up with an abundance of alien artifacts, even in early game. The science 4 recipe is still at a 1:10 ratio and science 4 techs are not more expensive. Is this intentional or am i missing something? Please make the science 4 recipe more expensive (like 1:2 or even less).

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by Afforess »

mbattjes@gmail.com wrote:I love this mod it's just what i needed. However everything appears to be more expensive or time consuming except for science 4. I always end up with an abundance of alien artifacts, even in early game. The science 4 recipe is still at a 1:10 ratio and science 4 techs are not more expensive. Is this intentional or am i missing something? Please make the science 4 recipe more expensive (like 1:2 or even less).
I've noticed this, and I agree on principle that they are not balanced correctly for Marathon. However, the alien artifacts are an extremely contentious part of the game play and making players need 5x more... well, let's say I've made more popular decisions.

So I guess what I am saying is that fixing Alien Artifact balance is a strong maybe. ;)

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by mbattjes@gmail.com »

I guess a less arduous solution would be to add an extra ingredient to the science 4 recipe (modules maybe). However you may argue that that doesn't really fit the Marathon theme, i personally think it's fine. Science 4 has always been a weird one. And you could always make it optional.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by toaran »

Hi there

I cant get the Marathon mod to work with the current bobsmods...

i have only the library and bobsmodules installed and i get this error on loading...
http://imgur.com/JpQ68aP

if i add the bobsplates mod which i think adds the carbon i get this error...
http://imgur.com/bzVZeNs
any ideas?

T

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by Afforess »

toaran wrote:Hi there

I cant get the Marathon mod to work with the current bobsmods...

i have only the library and bobsmodules installed and i get this error on loading...
http://imgur.com/JpQ68aP

if i add the bobsplates mod which i think adds the carbon i get this error...
http://imgur.com/bzVZeNs
any ideas?

T
Can you post where you got bob's mods from (there seem to be several unofficial sources I've noticed) OR a copy of your mods folder, so I can take a look?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by toaran »

Hi Afforess

i always download mod from the official thread... --> viewtopic.php?f=51&t=13919

i narrowed the error down to the bobsconfig mod -->viewtopic.php?f=51&t=16814
If i dont use it everything works... and as it is optional i can live without it

T

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by orzelek »

I played around a bit with bob's mods and marathona nd have a qustion - did you leave the electronics assembling machine cost unmodified by design?
It's helpful since it makes producing wires and electronics a bit cheaper to automate.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by Wulfson »

toaran: So, Bob's is made to be modular, but the Marathon integration of that is incomplete. If you don't have all of Bob's Mods installed, you're probably gonna run into errors.

orzelek: I can't recall if I reviewed the electronics assembly machine recipes. In most places, I did not tweak the recipes too much because I felt that Bob's production chains added sufficient complexity as to not warrant a large increase in individual component costs. If the electronics assembly machine makes costs a lot cheaper, it's probably just an oversight.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by orzelek »

Wulfson wrote:toaran: So, Bob's is made to be modular, but the Marathon integration of that is incomplete. If you don't have all of Bob's Mods installed, you're probably gonna run into errors.

orzelek: I can't recall if I reviewed the electronics assembly machine recipes. In most places, I did not tweak the recipes too much because I felt that Bob's production chains added sufficient complexity as to not warrant a large increase in individual component costs. If the electronics assembly machine makes costs a lot cheaper, it's probably just an oversight.
Electronics assembling machine can be made without normal assembler so it's recipe turns out quite low cost compared to updated assembler. It is limited to crafting some materials for circuits and circuits themselves. So the cost difference is only in setting the chain up.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by HornyRooster »

Marthon Mod Recap:

There is definitely a love hate relationship I have with this mod. Since everything is more expensive and slower, I find that my decision making at each step is very very important because the cost in time-value of a screw up is exacerbated in this mod. The difficulty in unraveling a failed factory design after long-term usage of said design can be extremely painful when you have aliens constantly attacking your base defenses which cost so much more, and not only that but I find myself to be way behind the tech curve so I am always fighting an ever increasing horde of aliens while trying to manage expansion. This creates a lot of difficulty, but it also trains you to be much more prudent when placing things in your base. This provides me with a wonderful segue into my hate of the mod.
Because of the huge cost increases of everything, you are constantly trying to balance technological progress with just simple base expansion. At times, because of the snails pace of tech expansion, I find that I am playing a never ending game of wack-a-mole with the aliens constantly nipping at my heals. You could say this is part of the regular game, but really in the regular game you can accelerate your tech so quickly that you can easily deal with any significant alien incursion, but in Marathon mod, I find myself constantly struggling to keep the hordes at bay, so much so that I just get bored and stop playing. In my current game I am barely at the point where I can get construction robots to start to maintain base defenses only to realize I just can't afford the damn bots. They are so overwhelmingly expensive, I fear their construction will stop my meager tech progression in its tracts.
To summarize, I love this mod, but I hate it too. The economic pendulum this mod affects seems to have swung a tiny bit to far to the other side.

Thank you for your time,

Rooster

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by Afforess »

toaran wrote:Hi Afforess

i always download mod from the official thread... --> viewtopic.php?f=51&t=13919

i narrowed the error down to the bobsconfig mod -->viewtopic.php?f=51&t=16814
If i dont use it everything works... and as it is optional i can live without it

T
Marathon 1.0.1 should fix this issue. Let me know if you have any other issues ;)
Wulfson wrote:toaran: So, Bob's is made to be modular, but the Marathon integration of that is incomplete. If you don't have all of Bob's Mods installed, you're probably gonna run into errors.

orzelek: I can't recall if I reviewed the electronics assembly machine recipes. In most places, I did not tweak the recipes too much because I felt that Bob's production chains added sufficient complexity as to not warrant a large increase in individual component costs. If the electronics assembly machine makes costs a lot cheaper, it's probably just an oversight.
I actually took a bit of care to ensure that Marathon 1.0.0 verified each item from Bob's mod exists before updating the recipe. I just missed the fuel rebalances in in item.lua. There should be no problems running only a subset of Bob's mods.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.1

Post by Ackos »

Want to buy....Oil and stone, paying well! Enquire at planet XJ-9.

:lol:

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.0

Post by Wulfson »

Afforess wrote: I actually took a bit of care to ensure that Marathon 1.0.0 verified each item from Bob's mod exists before updating the recipe. I just missed the fuel rebalances in in item.lua. There should be no problems running only a subset of Bob's mods.
Ahh, I didn't see that bit of the update_recipe function. Good thought!

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.1

Post by IhanaMies »

Bobs recipe cobalt-oxide-from-copper is not in line with the standard copper plate recipe.

Bobs recipe requires 7x copper, 1x stone, 1x coal and 1x hydrogen = 10x copper plate and 2 cobalt oxide as in standard copper recipe 1x ore = 5x plates

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.1

Post by Cos »

Just finished my first Marathon (+RSO) in 99:32:31.

Must say it was very enjoyable and provides a very different challenge. Many thanks to the Author(s) of this Mod!

Some thoughts / tips / observations (aka learning from my mistakes):

I never went to Electric Furnaces.
Though green circuits are very expensive I went for efficiency modules early on.
This allowed me to keep my polution footprint small and avoid unwanted attention.
I did use gun turrents early on but I think I may have been better 'rushing'!? laser turrents. That way I would have not needed to do all the gun turret upgrades (which cost a lot!).
I killed bases via personal roboport / 5 laser turrets and a large pole blueprint.
I didn't get power armour 2 and skipped a lot of non-essential research - i.e. only very basic logistic robots / didn't do shotgun.
Peak circuits was only about 250 / min - however - by dropping a lot of the non essential research I saved a lot of the need for them.
I ended up with direct insertion of copper plate from 4 stone furnaces into 1 assy3.
In vanilla you tend to think 'Oh I'll just do all of the remaining red science while I build green science' AND 'I'll just do all of the Green Science while I build Blue Science' - DONT DO THIS IN MARATHON. You will using 10,000s of resources that you don't really need to spend.
Towards the last 10-20hrs I was constantly running out of oil and was pretty frustrated - I used 2 x productivity 2 in my blue science / acid / plastic production - this helped quite a bit.
Only downside was the constant need to build new mining / oil outposts to feed the mill. Even with blueprints etc.. this did start to get a bit 'grindy'.

I'll definately do another one but I'll do some research first on productivity modules - I feel that had I used them earlier they could have given more payback.
Anyone have any other tips / strats etc?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.1

Post by Afforess »

Cos wrote:Just finished my first Marathon (+RSO) in 99:32:31.

Must say it was very enjoyable and provides a very different challenge. Many thanks to the Author(s) of this Mod!

Some thoughts / tips / observations (aka learning from my mistakes):

I never went to Electric Furnaces.
Though green circuits are very expensive I went for efficiency modules early on.
This allowed me to keep my polution footprint small and avoid unwanted attention.
I did use gun turrents early on but I think I may have been better 'rushing'!? laser turrents. That way I would have not needed to do all the gun turret upgrades (which cost a lot!).
I killed bases via personal roboport / 5 laser turrets and a large pole blueprint.
I didn't get power armour 2 and skipped a lot of non-essential research - i.e. only very basic logistic robots / didn't do shotgun.
Peak circuits was only about 250 / min - however - by dropping a lot of the non essential research I saved a lot of the need for them.
I ended up with direct insertion of copper plate from 4 stone furnaces into 1 assy3.
In vanilla you tend to think 'Oh I'll just do all of the remaining red science while I build green science' AND 'I'll just do all of the Green Science while I build Blue Science' - DONT DO THIS IN MARATHON. You will using 10,000s of resources that you don't really need to spend.
Towards the last 10-20hrs I was constantly running out of oil and was pretty frustrated - I used 2 x productivity 2 in my blue science / acid / plastic production - this helped quite a bit.
Only downside was the constant need to build new mining / oil outposts to feed the mill. Even with blueprints etc.. this did start to get a bit 'grindy'.

I'll definately do another one but I'll do some research first on productivity modules - I feel that had I used them earlier they could have given more payback.
Anyone have any other tips / strats etc?
Sounds like a great game. I too stick with steel furnaces. The coal efficiency with steel furnaces is 100% (vs 50% if you convert coal into power through steam engines) and coal is often easy to come by. Solar panels are really expensive and the ROI is small enough that it takes a long time to become net positive.

Oil can definitely be frustrating, I find I search the farthest for oil in my games. RSO helps some with oil, as farther patches become denser. I think 0.1.3's rail planner will solve a lot of the tedium with expanding railways (although FARL helps now).

I almost never use modules. The ROI on modules is pretty terrible on Marathon, it takes like 100-200 hours for them to be net positive investments. I also try to avoid using conveyer belts very much, and chain outputs to inserters directly into assemblers. So my furnaces insert directly to assemblers to make secondary goods. The 1 ore = 5x plates makes conveyer belts a really poor strategy.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.1

Post by orzelek »

@Cos - did you notice that deposits were being bigger with RSO further out or it wasn't noticable ?
It's something I'm trying to get some balance with and Marathon mod is good for testing.

I'm running bobathon with science tweaker to get costs up a bit.. no idea if I can finish it :D
(Natural Evolution doesn't help yet but it will help to manage biters later on)

@Affores - can you take a look at mentioned above cobalt copper smelting recipe thats not updated by bobathon?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.1

Post by Afforess »

orzelek wrote: @Affores - can you take a look at mentioned above cobalt copper smelting recipe thats not updated by bobathon?
Yeah. I'm away from my gaming PC right now, but next chance I get, I will investigate.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.1

Post by IhanaMies »

@Afforess do you plan to fix the recipe i mentioned?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.1

Post by Afforess »

IhanaMies wrote:@Afforess do you plan to fix the recipe i mentioned?
If you read the reply above, I said yes. ;)

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