[MOD 0.17.x] Natural Evolution - All things Alien!

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UberWaffe
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.2.0 - All things Alien!

Post by UberWaffe » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:06 am

Timeslice wrote:Line 29 of data-updates.lua has a pretty big typo in it...

For some reason when I add NE to my pack when Science Tweaker is installed an additional two copper plates get added to the recipe for red science, even if I have the extra science cost config set to false. This leads me to believe that there are two bugs: the ScienceCost config setting isn't working, and the science pack recipe changes are happening before Science Cost Tweaker is replacing the recipe with it's custom science pack intermediates.

Hmm... seems like part of the problem is that the recipe isn't resetting after I turned off the ScienceCost config option, because when I started a new game the recipe is fine, but I load my current one and it has the extra plates. Will removing and re-adding NE force the migration script to fire?

*edit* Nevermind, this command fixed it:

Code: Select all

/c game.player.force.reset_recipes()
Hi, I've not yet tried to use the Science Cost Tweaker mod with Natural Evolution, so I had no idea it would cause this.
I'll run the two together than take a look at how to avoid this in SCT as well.

EDIT: Oh, I see the new version of NE already addresses this.

EDIT 2:
TheSAguy wrote: Orzelek, is there anyway I can include a line like this in the control to do the update on load?
I know that just

Code: Select all

game.player.force.reset_recipes()
does not work, give an error about 1 player or something.
I found the following code in Bob's Mods migration scripts that work really well, I've been using it so far.

Code: Select all

for index, force in pairs(game.forces) do
	force.reset_recipes()
	force.reset_technologies()
end

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.2.0 - All things Alien!

Post by Timeslice » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:26 am

UberWaffe wrote:
TheSAguy wrote: Orzelek, is there anyway I can include a line like this in the control to do the update on load?
I know that just

Code: Select all

game.player.force.reset_recipes()
does not work, give an error about 1 player or something.
I found the following code in Bob's Mods migration scripts that work really well, I've been using it so far.

Code: Select all

for index, force in pairs(game.forces) do
	force.reset_recipes()
	force.reset_technologies()
end
That's interesting. Dytech loops through game.players instead. I wonder which is more accurate. Forces are a relatively recent addition, yes?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.2.0 - All things Alien!

Post by UberWaffe » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:46 pm

Timeslice wrote:That's interesting. Dytech loops through game.players instead. I wonder which is more accurate. Forces are a relatively recent addition, yes?
Yes, forces are rather recent. Only from v0.12.0 and onwards I believe, but not widely used yet in vanilla (Or at least that I know. Currently mainly seems to be for separate research per force, and the basic diplomacy functions).
As far as I know forces is more 'correct' in that the research is tracked per 'force' not per player.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:16 pm

Any idea how the new biter/spitter addition will mix with bob's enemies mod?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:25 pm

orzelek wrote:Any idea how the new biter/spitter addition will mix with bob's enemies mod?
Bob has his own spawner and mine is added to the vanilla spawners, so they have no interaction with each other and work together flawlessly. I'm using both.
As for Dytech, he also modifies the vanilla spawner, so if you're using Dytech, mine won't spawn. I gave his priority.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by Evilness » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:13 am

I ve gotta say im loving this mod. However i do have a few suggestions for improvements. Even after the balancing i found the terraformers to be overpowered. A great way to fix this would be to add difficulty. For example easy would be as it is now. Then for each harder difficulty evolution reduction base would decrease for 0.000005 and decrease factor for each next station would alse decrease for 0.025. Also it would be awesome if you incorporated air filtering into your mod.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:14 pm

I'm seeing terraformers currently as an optional difficulty modifier. You can use them for easier game or not for "normal" difficulty as selected in config.
I do agree that default difficult level is currently quite tame. It heavily depends on how you are polluting from what I can see.

Making game much more difficult will penalize people that want to play longer games or use complex mods that make building terraformers more difficult. It could work with more grades of terraformers where first ones would be available earlier (mainly the electronics requirement is problematic if you are playing with bob's mods for example).

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:00 pm

Evilness wrote:I ve gotta say im loving this mod. However i do have a few suggestions for improvements. Even after the balancing i found the terraformers to be overpowered. A great way to fix this would be to add difficulty. For example easy would be as it is now. Then for each harder difficulty evolution reduction base would decrease for 0.000005 and decrease factor for each next station would alse decrease for 0.025.
orzelek wrote:I'm seeing terraformers currently as an optional difficulty modifier. You can use them for easier game or not for "normal" difficulty as selected in config.
I do agree that default difficult level is currently quite tame. It heavily depends on how you are polluting from what I can see.

Making game much more difficult will penalize people that want to play longer games or use complex mods that make building terraformers more difficult. It could work with more grades of terraformers where first ones would be available earlier (mainly the electronics requirement is problematic if you are playing with bob's mods for example).
Thanks for the feedback guys!
First off, currently all my testing is done using Bob's, because that's what I'm currently playing with.
Are you playing with the latest version, (non-Dytech) because those biters are now a lot harder.

I do like the idea of making the terraforming stations have difficulty levels. Should not be a problem. I'll work on that.
Evilness wrote:Also it would be awesome if you incorporated air filtering into your mod.
Never used this mod, so will have to check it out.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:01 pm

TheSAguy wrote:...
Evilness wrote:Also it would be awesome if you incorporated air filtering into your mod.
Never used this mod, so will have to check it out.
I think that might make game a lot easier again. Last time I used air filters it was quite easy to eliminate pollution. It costs you power and coal but not that much. And after that biters won't be fed any more :D

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by oLaudix » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:38 pm

Do i have to start new game for this to work, or will it adjust to the world aleady existing?

NVM. It doenst want to work for me at all. It works after all i had older version of RSO =_=
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:45 pm

oLaudix wrote:Do i have to start new game for this to work, or will it adjust to the world aleady existing?

NVM. It doenst want to work for me at all. It works after all i had older version of RSO =_=
So did you get it to work? Not sure how an old RSO would not make it work. What was happening?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by oLaudix » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:03 pm

It's jus how factorio works. Even if the dependancy is conditional, as long as you have it it won't work if you wont have the minimum version specified in the info file. Newest version of NE requires RSO v 1.3.0 and i had 1.2.9.

BTW i noticed strange behaviour. Instead of grouping together biters sometimes attack in packs of 2 - 3 even 1 sometimes. Mostly the mutated ones.
http://i.imgur.com/lYGSzvW.jpg
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:45 pm

It's interesting. I'm not really sure why NE has requirement on RSO :D

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by Evilness » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:13 pm

orzelek wrote:
TheSAguy wrote:...
Evilness wrote:Also it would be awesome if you incorporated air filtering into your mod.
Never used this mod, so will have to check it out.
I think that might make game a lot easier again. Last time I used air filters it was quite easy to eliminate pollution. It costs you power and coal but not that much. And after that biters won't be fed any more :D
Yes, it might make the game easier if you just used air filtering as it is now. But it is also possible to make recepies for air filtering more complicated and/or add difficulty via config file. If you are playing with biter denisity on high or very high with dytech tings are pretty challenging. And air fitering would help reduce the pollution size a little. And it would be a little something to make the game richer. You could of couse just play with dytech on easy or less biters but thats not my point.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by allex » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:10 am

This mod looks amazing, ty for doing this and sharing
I was looking for biters to be more difficult late game, but there is something weird.
Alien artifacts are spawning everywhere on the map... Even in "non-discover" / new area.
http://imgur.com/jp9HsHh

i'm using other mods, there is maybe something wrong :

Ξ~/Documents/factorio/mods$ ls
advanced-logistics-system_0.2.5.zip
bobassembly_0.12.3.zip
bobelectronics_0.12.3.zip
bobenemies_0.12.4.zip
boblogistics_0.12.4.zip
bobmining_0.12.1.zip
bobmodules_0.12.4.zip
bobores_0.12.4.zip
bobplates_0.12.5
bobpower_0.12.3.zip
bobtech_0.12.2.zip
bobwarfare_0.12.4
boxing_0.6.0
clock_0.12.0.zip
color-coding_1.0.6.zip
Landfill_2.1.6.zip
Larger Inventory_1.0.0.zip
mod-list.json
Natural-Evolution_4.2.0.zip
Pocket-Bots-Start_1.0.3.zip
Treefarm-AC_0.2.1.zip
Treefarm-Lite_0.2.0.zip

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:21 pm

allex wrote:This mod looks amazing, ty for doing this and sharing
I was looking for biters to be more difficult late game, but there is something weird.
Alien artifacts are spawning everywhere on the map... Even in "non-discover" / new area.
http://imgur.com/jp9HsHh
Hey Allex,
Glad you're enjoying the mod. Let me know what you think of the new biters.

The biters dying is a known issue. I think it's a built in function in Factorio that the aliens have a lifespan and die after a time. This must be to get rid of low level Evolution factor critters and spawn level appropriate once. In a normal game you would not notice this, but any mod that adds items to corpses, like Dytech, Bob's or my mod causes these loot drops later in games.

Currently I don't know if a fix. I once read something about the possibility of seeing how something dies and only drop loot it it's killed, vs. die of old age, but don't think anything come of that.

Currently not sure what do do about these.
I'd like to find new was of using small alien artifacts so it can be put to use. Any ideas?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:13 pm

TheSAguy wrote:
allex wrote:This mod looks amazing, ty for doing this and sharing
I was looking for biters to be more difficult late game, but there is something weird.
Alien artifacts are spawning everywhere on the map... Even in "non-discover" / new area.
http://imgur.com/jp9HsHh
Hey Allex,
Glad you're enjoying the mod. Let me know what you think of the new biters.

The biters dying is a known issue. I think it's a built in function in Factorio that the aliens have a lifespan and die after a time. This must be to get rid of low level Evolution factor critters and spawn level appropriate once. In a normal game you would not notice this, but any mod that adds items to corpses, like Dytech, Bob's or my mod causes these loot drops later in games.

Currently I don't know if a fix. I once read something about the possibility of seeing how something dies and only drop loot it it's killed, vs. die of old age, but don't think anything come of that.

Currently not sure what do do about these.
I'd like to find new was of using small alien artifacts so it can be put to use. Any ideas?
From what I know they don't just die. I think it might be a pathfinder thing - if they fail to path they are killed. They should not drop the loot then - bug report maybe?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by allex » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:01 pm

Thank you very much for the prompt reply.
It is hard for me to write in english, thank you for the clarifications.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:55 pm

orzelek wrote:
TheSAguy wrote:
allex wrote:This mod looks amazing, ty for doing this and sharing
I was looking for biters to be more difficult late game, but there is something weird.
Alien artifacts are spawning everywhere on the map... Even in "non-discover" / new area.
http://imgur.com/jp9HsHh
Hey Allex,
Glad you're enjoying the mod. Let me know what you think of the new biters.

The biters dying is a known issue. I think it's a built in function in Factorio that the aliens have a lifespan and die after a time. This must be to get rid of low level Evolution factor critters and spawn level appropriate once. In a normal game you would not notice this, but any mod that adds items to corpses, like Dytech, Bob's or my mod causes these loot drops later in games.

Currently I don't know if a fix. I once read something about the possibility of seeing how something dies and only drop loot it it's killed, vs. die of old age, but don't think anything come of that.

Currently not sure what do do about these.
I'd like to find new was of using small alien artifacts so it can be put to use. Any ideas?
From what I know they don't just die. I think it might be a pathfinder thing - if they fail to path they are killed. They should not drop the loot then - bug report maybe?
Good idea, let's see what they say:
Dead Biters

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v4.3.0 - All things Alien!

Post by oLaudix » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:45 pm

http://i.imgur.com/jQyYPEZ.png
Any idea why expansion chunks suddenly appeared in the middle of my factory? Time difference between the screensots is like 5 minutes. Evolutionary factor is 91,1% on both.
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