[MOD 0.17.x] Natural Evolution - All things Alien!

Topics and discussion about specific mods
safan
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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.8 - All things Alien!

Post by safan » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:31 pm

in the 3.0.10 there is still a crash when i destroy a base

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.8 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:49 pm

Use the 3.0.8 I posted - 3.0.10 was experimental. It's in first post now also.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.8 - All things Alien!

Post by ~Poke~ » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:43 am

Is this mod safe to remove, or will biters get confused?
I was looking for biters to be more difficult late game, but after starting a new file with this mod... they're too hard early game!
Don't get me wrong, it certainly is doable, I'm just not the kind of player who likes to spend more time managing turrets than building my factory. I'll probably even put it back once I have lasers and some walls.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.8 - All things Alien!

Post by RodneyMckay » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:38 am

I'm not sure, but I think I found the bug.

I've made the following changes in the control.lua from Version 3.0.6:

In Line 101 entity -> event.entity:

Code: Select all

100	if event.entity.type == "unit-spawner" and event.entity.force == game.forces.enemy then
101		convertBase(event.entity, true)
102	end
In Line 218 game.find_entities.. -> game.get_surface("nauvis").find_entities(enemies):

Code: Select all

212    function convertBase(base, died)
...
218        enemies = game.get_surface("nauvis").find_entities(enemies)
The same in Line 235:

Code: Select all

235    if died then 
        table.insert(global.hiveminds, game.get_surface("nauvis").create_entity{name=base.name, position=base.position, force=game.player.force}) 
end
I don't know if I found every bug, but I hope that these Infos helps to solve the other issues.
At least I could destroy a biter base without crashes.
With debug on, it says: "The number of units converted is: 1"

But if there is a biter at the moment the base is destroyed, it crashes with the message
"control.lua:236: Map doesn't contain 1 player, these function can't be used"


Game Version 0.12.1
ShadowsMegaMultiplayerModpack Version 0-0-1
changes Made: mod Big drills deletet on begining of the game
changes Made in Natural Evolution v3.0.6 --control.lua
Multiplayer
Attachments
control.lua
the control.lua with my changes from version 3.0.6
(25.41 KiB) Downloaded 294 times

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.8 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:51 am

@Rodney - I'd recommend using the 3.0.8 from first post in this thread.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.8 - All things Alien!

Post by RodneyMckay » Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:28 pm

I would use it, but if I load a Save it tells me the file could be corrupted and doesn't load the savegame. So there is still an issue, maybe caused by an other mod from the Shadow Modpack, maybe by the game itself so that I can't load a save. The same happen's if I completely remove the Natural evolution Mod.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.8 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:00 pm

~Poke~ wrote:Is this mod safe to remove, or will biters get confused?
I was looking for biters to be more difficult late game, but after starting a new file with this mod... they're too hard early game!
Don't get me wrong, it certainly is doable, I'm just not the kind of player who likes to spend more time managing turrets than building my factory. I'll probably even put it back once I have lasers and some walls.
Thanks for the feedback ~Poke~,
It should be safe to remove.
What in the early game is making it hard for you?

RodneyMckay wrote:I would use it, but if I load a Save it tells me the file could be corrupted and doesn't load the savegame. So there is still an issue, maybe caused by an other mod from the Shadow Modpack, maybe by the game itself so that I can't load a save. The same happen's if I completely remove the Natural evolution Mod.
I'm not sure what would cause this. I've tested old saves and new games with the latest 3.0.8 and don't get any errors RodneyMckay.
I'm not currently activly playing and have not tried it with Shadow Pack. Will do that once I start playing again.

-----

As Orzelek said, his fix and the one on the initial page is the same and should be used for right now. The Alien Control Station was causing the problems have been removed for now.
P.S. JLBShecky is helping me out, to try and fix the code to get the ACS back in.

Thanks.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.8 - All things Alien!

Post by ~Poke~ » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:47 am

TheSAguy wrote:Thanks for the feedback ~Poke~,
It should be safe to remove.
What in the early game is making it hard for you?
I think it may have been a combination of an unlucky start and not playing as well as I should. I did start with a biter base nearby, which was attacking me ~10 minutes after I got power but I dealt with that. The issue was ~30 minutes after that I was getting attacks from all directions. I explored my whole pollution cloud on the map and it wasn't close to any bases, but maybe that isn't an accurate measure.
Reconsidering, it would probably have been more effective to build up my research on 1 or 2 steam engines instead of always adding more when I'm low on power like I'm used to (I had a full stack of 14/10 at this point).
I think I am through the tough part now since I have so many turrets, so considering that I didn't play too well it's probably fair. Maybe next time I need to toggle off NE.BiterSpitter (Am I correct in thinking this pref only affects the threshold that attacks start? With this off, the late game experience should still be the same, right?)

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.8 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:59 am

~Poke~ wrote: Maybe next time I need to toggle off NE.BiterSpitter (Am I correct in thinking this pref only affects the threshold that attacks start? With this off, the late game experience should still be the same, right?)
My mod won't affect you that early, I think you should increase your starting area.
But, by turning that off it should give you a little more time, since I lower the pollution needed before they attack. So by turning it off, it will go to vanilla that has a little higher pollution value before attacking.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.11 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:20 pm

Updated to V 3.0.11.

If you're using DyTech War, my Mod will mostly default to the difficulty settings used there for both the Spawner Nests and Evolution Factors. (Time, Pollution and killing nests)

If you're not using DyTech War, below are the Evolution settings now:

-- TIME: Only 75% of vanilla. From 0.000004 to 0.000003 per 60 ticks.
-- POLLUTION: Three times the vanilla Pollution Evolution, so don't pollute! From 0.000015 to 0.000045
-- KILLING EMENY SPAWNERS: 75% less Evolution increase for killing Enemy Spawners. From 0.002 to 0.0005

Bug Fix. Fixed a bug with the Terraforming Station. If removed or destroyed it did not get deducted from your total stations.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.11 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:19 pm

TheSAguy wrote:(cut)
Bug Fix. Fixed a bug with the Terraforming Station. If removed or destroyed it did not get deducted from your total stations.
Will it somehow count how many you have now actually or it's permanently broken in the save?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.11 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:19 pm

orzelek wrote:
TheSAguy wrote:(cut)
Bug Fix. Fixed a bug with the Terraforming Station. If removed or destroyed it did not get deducted from your total stations.
Will it somehow count how many you have now actually or it's permanently broken in the save?
It will know how many you have, but if any were removed/destroyed, the count might not be accurate, since they were never removed from the total.
I don't know how to let the system check and update to the accurate total if it does not match the current total... :roll:

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.11 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:34 pm

TheSAguy wrote:
orzelek wrote:
TheSAguy wrote:(cut)
Bug Fix. Fixed a bug with the Terraforming Station. If removed or destroyed it did not get deducted from your total stations.
Will it somehow count how many you have now actually or it's permanently broken in the save?
It will know how many you have, but if any were removed/destroyed, the count might not be accurate, since they were never removed from the total.
I don't know how to let the system check and update to the accurate total if it does not match the current total... :roll:
I fixed it by dirty hack... set it to 4 (since I have 4) on load and resave, remove the set after.

I've noticed that when playing with this mod you can get 2 "eras" - before and after terraformers.
I was lucky to be able to get into terraformers era before to many biters started visiting and I'm living on 13-14% evolution now :D

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.12 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:24 pm

I've added a small update that should affect how the enemies "Swarm" when attacking you.
The radius of how far away enemies come to join an attack slowly increases as the evolution factor goes up.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.12 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:21 pm

I found this mod to be both difficult and easy.

It's difficult at first till you get terraforming stations. You need to basically race to get some adv circuits or things might get.. harsh.
After you get the stations - build 2 (or better 4) and you are set. Add energy efficient base to that and you can keep evolution at very low values and be attacked only by small biters.

The adv circuit requirement makes it also double harsh with bobs mods :D

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.12 - All things Alien!

Post by DreamSmith » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:07 pm

Excellent mod, good fun.
I do find that the multiple terraforming stations can overnuke the biter evolution. An eco-friendly player myself I ended up with the evolution down into single figures.
Yes it's up to me to remove them to slow/stop the redution, targeting the effectiveness of multiple terraformers seems a mute point due to the ease of building them (if you can build one you can build lots as the resources are then avaiable).
How about the station removing a percentage of the evolution, say 1% of current. This way late game in the high 90% range you get a large reduction per cycle (0.9%), but when it's low say 20% the effect is neglegable (0.2%). 1% might even be to high still :D

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.12 - All things Alien!

Post by orzelek » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:13 pm

DreamSmith wrote:Excellent mod, good fun.
I do find that the multiple terraforming stations can overnuke the biter evolution. An eco-friendly player myself I ended up with the evolution down into single figures.
Yes it's up to me to remove them to slow/stop the redution, targeting the effectiveness of multiple terraformers seems a mute point due to the ease of building them (if you can build one you can build lots as the resources are then avaiable).
How about the station removing a percentage of the evolution, say 1% of current. This way late game in the high 90% range you get a large reduction per cycle (0.9%), but when it's low say 20% the effect is neglegable (0.2%). 1% might even be to high still :D
It works like that currently DreamSmith. And it even lowers the reduction for building more terraformers. Unless I misread the calculations.
It's still quite easy to offset your small pollution from eco-friendly base and stop the evolution completely.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.12 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:11 pm

orzelek wrote:I found this mod to be both difficult and easy.

It's difficult at first till you get terraforming stations. You need to basically race to get some adv circuits or things might get.. harsh.
After you get the stations - build 2 (or better 4) and you are set. Add energy efficient base to that and you can keep evolution at very low values and be attacked only by small biters.

The adv circuit requirement makes it also double harsh with bobs mods :D
DreamSmith wrote:Excellent mod, good fun.
I do find that the multiple terraforming stations can overnuke the biter evolution. An eco-friendly player myself I ended up with the evolution down into single figures.
Yes it's up to me to remove them to slow/stop the redution, targeting the effectiveness of multiple terraformers seems a mute point due to the ease of building them (if you can build one you can build lots as the resources are then available).
How about the station removing a percentage of the evolution, say 1% of current. This way late game in the high 90% range you get a large reduction per cycle (0.9%), but when it's low say 20% the effect is neglegable (0.2%). 1% might even be to high still :D
Thanks so much for the feedback guys!!

One of my big concerns was that the Terraforming stations would be Over Powered.
As Orzelek mentions, currently each consecutive station you build is less effective that the one before. Also, the amount of evolution that gets subtracted also goes down the higher the evolution factor is, since the game has a built in slowdown, so by matching that slowdown I further insure that the stations are not OP.

Given all this, I'm still worried that they might be OP as is. So I might increase their electricity use. This seems to fit the overall theme of the mod, where if you pollute you get penalized, but if you can power them with clean solar, you are rewarded. Thoughts?

P.S. I'm personally not playing a game right now, so my testing/balancing is very limited. So I need your feedback :)

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.12 - All things Alien!

Post by DreamSmith » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:56 pm

I don't like it but high power consumption maybe the way to go, my latest start I had terraformers up before the evo hit 20%. How about a evo 'floor' that is the minimum the stations can reduce too, that slowly increases over time. This way you can terrraform the pollution caused away and maybe half the evolution over time, that way you'd still get some progression.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.x] Natural Evolution v3.0.13 - All things Alien!

Post by TheSAguy » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:39 am

Updated to Version 3.0.13.
Small update. I doubled the power usage of the Terraforming Station. Was a little OP. Now you will create more pollution to power it, unless you use clean power like solar.

I've also done a little more tinkering with the Alien attack waves - "Swarm"

P.S. Once Factorio 12.3 is released I'll release a version with the Alien Control Stations back in! :D
There was a bug that they now fixed. Had to do with converting injured biters or something like that.

Feedback please!
Hey, Version 3.0.12 just had a 100 downloads 8-)

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