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Not the most fun, or de most desired mod, but the mod with most atention to details and work put on, love it you're the best

Is this mod compatible with the new versions of factorio still?

Captain Taz wrote:Is this mod compatible with the new versions of factorio still?

The 0.13 version is here: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Klonan/KS_Power

Hello, do you think it's possible for you to update your set of mods to .14?

Aubog007 wrote:Hello, do you think it's possible for you to update your set of mods to .14?

Sure, i'll update them in a while

I like this mod alot, specially diesel generator part. Making backup electricity using it feels so good (probably because thats what we use in real life for emergency).

Didnt like the oil burner though, mostly because there is no advanced steam engines with more output and its like new but like not really (however using yuoki industries or other mods turbines helps). Some advanced turbine would be really nice to see in some future of this mod (if it will continue to develop).

Windturbine is good (can there be 0 wind and no power output at all?) for powering power dependant small things like combinator logic turning on backup power(thats how i use it). Its basically solar panel working at night and with lower output.
Burner generator is okay for setting up first lab\assembler but i didnt find any use for it later...

Overall the mod is great (diesel generator 100% deserves to be in vanilla with some visual and maybe little balance (pollution) tweaks).

Klonan wrote:

Aubog007 wrote:Hello, do you think it's possible for you to update your set of mods to .14?

Sure, i'll update them in a while

Woohoo! I have become addicted to your mods, so now I can't play factorio because I'm on the latest beta :p

Another thing: when rail tankers come to vanilla, do you know if your liquid diesel stuff or something similar might get implemented to power the locomotives, or, if not, would it be possible for you to make that happen through modding? It feels so weird to not be able to power diesel locomotives using diesel fuel... :p

(coal/solid fuel just feels like the sort of stuff that would be used to power steam locomotives, and those are, sadly, not a thing)

Almalexia wrote:

Klonan wrote:

Aubog007 wrote:Hello, do you think it's possible for you to update your set of mods to .14?

Sure, i'll update them in a while

Woohoo! I have become addicted to your mods, so now I can't play factorio because I'm on the latest beta :p

Another thing: when rail tankers come to vanilla, do you know if your liquid diesel stuff or something similar might get implemented to power the locomotives, or, if not, would it be possible for you to make that happen through modding? It feels so weird to not be able to power diesel locomotives using diesel fuel... :p

(coal/solid fuel just feels like the sort of stuff that would be used to power steam locomotives, and those are, sadly, not a thing)

Just unzip the version you have, edit the json file in it to say 14 instead of 13, zip it back up and use that. There is very little difference between 0.13 and 0.14 except the MP code so I did this with all the mods which I was using that hadn't updated. It all works fine.

Yea. We really need a higher density steam generator. The area it takes up, admittedly, is far less that solar, but still seems massive.



Also, I hate the death spirals that causes. End up using a seperate network with a few burner generators to keep that from happening. Ugh.

I just came back to a map I had running in the background overnight, and it had gone completely blackout. All steam, no solar (also no enemies and Crafted Artifacts ), and my oil wells had run dry.

The curious thing is that all my wind turbines (~50, but I relied on steam) had shut down. And they only started up again the moment I placed an additional one. Steam generation had started moments earlier (manually...).

Jürgen Erhard wrote:I just came back to a map I had running in the background overnight, and it had gone completely blackout. All steam, no solar (also no enemies and Crafted Artifacts ), and my oil wells had run dry.

The curious thing is that all my wind turbines (~50, but I relied on steam) had shut down. And they only started up again the moment I placed an additional one. Steam generation had started moments earlier (manually...).

I uploaded a new version,
Wind turbines should be a lot more efficient now (performance wise) and shouldn't have this problem any longer

Jackielope wrote:Any particular reason you chose petroleum gas and light oil as the ingredients to make diesel fuel?

I ask since diesel fuel is on the heavy end of petroleum fuels. Petroleum gas is very often propane and butane, which are 3 and 4 carbon molecules, respectively. Diesel fuel's molecules have between 8 and 21 carbon atoms in them with 12 as the average, so using petroleum gas to make it doesn't make sense. If it was a combination of light and heavy oil then I could see it working better, and it would make the player figure out whether they want to make something with heavy oil besides lubricant or just to crack it down into light oil and petroleum gas.

This reply is way late, but nobody else seemed to have answered your question.


Diesel is a very light oil. I don't know the numbers of atoms per chain, but I suspect the in-game light oil is something much thicker than kerosene/diesel/benzene such as canola oil, while the heavy oil is likely a high viscosity oil like motor oil.

Klonan, do you plan on updating this for 0.15? It'd make it easier for me to migrate some saves if it is.

Ta

+1 for a 0.15 update. Early game just doesn't feel complete without wind turbines.

It seems like the diesel generator doesn't function properly in [0.15.13] if you use unbarreled diesel fuel. The generator just drains fuel at maximum speed. Fuel straight from a chemical plant seems to work fine, but barreling and unbarreling the fuel with vanilla barreling seems to somehow break it. Maybe it has something to do with the temperature of the unbarreled fuel being 0°C?

Blanabba wrote:It seems like the diesel generator doesn't function properly in [0.15.13] if you use unbarreled diesel fuel. The generator just drains fuel at maximum speed. Fuel straight from a chemical plant seems to work fine, but barreling and unbarreling the fuel with vanilla barreling seems to somehow break it. Maybe it has something to do with the temperature of the unbarreled fuel being 0°C?

Thanks for the report,

It should be fixed now

I'm happy about the 0.15 update!

I calculated the outputs and fuel efficiencies of stuff:
Burner generator: 450kW, 25% efficiency
Standard boiler/2 steam engines: 1800kW, 50% efficiency
Standard boiler/1 steam turbine: 1800kW, 50% efficiency
Oil boiler/2 steam engines: 1800kW, ~52% efficiency
Diesel generator: 682kW, 10.8% efficiency (without modules)

The burner generator bug is fixed, it no longer drains fuel at full speed when less power is demanded.
I tested the burner generator's fuel efficiency, it took ~222.3 seconds to use 50 coal at max output, which is 400MJ / 222.2222 = 1.8MW, with a power output of 450kW (according to the electric network), it has a fuel efficiency of exactly 25%.

I clocked the boiler at ~112.0 seconds to expend 400MJ of coal running two steam engines at max output which the electric network says is 1.8MW. 400 / 112 = 3 & 4/7ths (3.571428571428...) MW or a fuel efficiency of exactly 50.4%. Exactly 50% efficiency would take 111.1111 seconds to expend the fuel, and I might have accidentally added a second in my measurement.

The oil boiler has a crafting speed of 1 so it should take exactly 1 second to turn 1.4 light oil or 2.8 crude or heavy oil into 60 steam. This is exactly the same rate a standard boiler produces it, and exactly the same rate 2 steam engines will consume it. So this means 1.4 light oil per second generates 1.8MW of power, giving each unit of light oil an energy value of 1.285 & 5/7ths MJ. Solid fuel turns 10 light oil into 25MJ or 2.5MJ per light oil, or 1.25MJ per light oil after 50% loss in the standard boiler. This gives the oil boiler an energy efficiency of 51.42857%. But lets factor in the energy cost of producing solid fuel: it takes 1 chemical plant 2.4 seconds to produce 1 solid fuel at a base power consumption of 210kW, or 504kJ loss. This gives solid fuel an effective energy value of 24.496MJ and raises oil boiler's relative efficiency to 52.4867% if you would otherwise produce solid fuel without modules for power production.

The standard boiler uses about (or probably exactly) 60 water per second, so it is converting water to steam at a 1:1 ratio, same as the oil boiler, giving both the same water efficiency (100%) as well as the same water expenditure rate (60/s). The steam turbine with 165ºC steam also works exactly the same as 2 steam engines: same steam usage rate and same power output.

20 light oil and 20 petroleum gas makes 30 diesel fuel. That much could also produce 3 solid fuel (75MJ), or if you are cracking light oil into petroleum gas, you can alternatively get 5 solid fuel (125MJ). So we can give each unit of diesel an energy value of either 2.5MJ or 4.1666MJ. The diesel generator is listed as consuming 16 fluid per second and has a listed power output of 639kW, however it took ~146 seconds to drain 200 diesel at max output and was generating 682kW according to the electric network. This gives it a fuel consumption rate of 1.37 per second, or 3.425/5.70833 MJ per second, for a fuel efficiency of 20% or 12% depending on how you produce your fuel. The 12% value is a more reasonable figure for most factories, given how valuable petroleum gas is, most people will not want to expend it from the natural refinement process but will instead use light oil only for fuel. This is a significant reduction in efficiency from the figures I calculated in 0.12 (~32% efficiency) and it is also a significant reduction in power output, as it used to be 2.6MW. It has an initial advantage in costing only one third as much time in a chemical plant to produce the same amount of fuel, but it loses this and more with its poor efficiency. At 12% base efficiency, it actually costs 4.444 times as much power to run the chemical plant to make diesel, including cracking light oil to petroleum gas, relative to how much power it costs to make solid fuel. This costs 61.376kW out of the diesel generator's 682kW production, and brings the actual un-moduled efficiency down to 10.9% (a 9% loss).

thereaverofdarkness wrote:
20 light oil and 20 petroleum gas makes 30 diesel fuel. That much could also produce 3 solid fuel (75MJ), or if you are cracking light oil into petroleum gas, you can alternatively get 5 solid fuel (125MJ). So we can give each unit of diesel an energy value of either 2.5MJ or 4.1666MJ. The diesel generator is listed as consuming 16 fluid per second and has a listed power output of 639kW, however it took ~146 seconds to drain 200 diesel at max output and was generating 682kW according to the electric network. This gives it a fuel consumption rate of 1.37 per second, or 3.425/5.70833 MJ per second, for a fuel efficiency of 20% or 12% depending on how you produce your fuel. The 12% value is a more reasonable figure for most factories, given how valuable petroleum gas is, most people will not want to expend it from the natural refinement process but will instead use light oil only for fuel. This is a significant reduction in efficiency from the figures I calculated in 0.12 (~32% efficiency) and it is also a significant reduction in power output, as it used to be 2.6MW. It has an initial advantage in costing only one third as much time in a chemical plant to produce the same amount of fuel, but it loses this and more with its poor efficiency. At 12% base efficiency, it actually costs 4.444 times as much power to run the chemical plant to make diesel, including cracking light oil to petroleum gas, relative to how much power it costs to make solid fuel. This costs 61.376kW out of the diesel generator's 682kW production, and brings the actual un-moduled efficiency down to 10.9% (a 9% loss).

Do you have some other mod installed that might be affecting the diesel generator?
I have tested it, and it outputs 8MW, and for 200 fuel gives 100MJ, so 0.5MJ per 1 fuel,
If 30 dieself requires 20 light and 20 petro,
20 light = 50MJ
20 petro = 25 MJ
30 diesel = 75MJ

burning 30 diesel gives 15MJ, so its an efficiency of 20%

Klonan wrote:Do you have some other mod installed that might be affecting the diesel generator?
I have tested it, and it outputs 8MW, and for 200 fuel gives 100MJ, so 0.5MJ per 1 fuel,

Images

If 30 dieself requires 20 light and 20 petro,
20 light = 50MJ
20 petro = 25 MJ
30 diesel = 75MJ

burning 30 diesel gives 15MJ, so its an efficiency of 20%

I must have. I upgraded all my mods and Factorio, and got the same stats as you. 8 MW, 16 diesel per second. I'm not sure what was inhibiting it from burning at full rate before. But it's still 12% efficiency if you're counting the 20 petroleum gas as 30 light oil being cracked into petroleum gas, relative to what you'd get by turning that light oil into solid fuel.

50 light oil = 5 solid fuel (125MJ)
30 light oil = 20 petroleum gas
20 light oil + 20 petroleum gas = 50 light oil

Since most factories are lacking petroleum gas more than anything else, most people will effectively have 12% efficiency, not 20%.

thereaverofdarkness wrote:

Klonan wrote:Do you have some other mod installed that might be affecting the diesel generator?
I have tested it, and it outputs 8MW, and for 200 fuel gives 100MJ, so 0.5MJ per 1 fuel,

Images

If 30 dieself requires 20 light and 20 petro,
20 light = 50MJ
20 petro = 25 MJ
30 diesel = 75MJ

burning 30 diesel gives 15MJ, so its an efficiency of 20%

I must have. I upgraded all my mods and Factorio, and got the same stats as you. 8 MW, 16 diesel per second. I'm not sure what was inhibiting it from burning at full rate before. But it's still 12% efficiency if you're counting the 20 petroleum gas as 30 light oil being cracked into petroleum gas, relative to what you'd get by turning that light oil into solid fuel.

50 light oil = 5 solid fuel (125MJ)
30 light oil = 20 petroleum gas
20 light oil + 20 petroleum gas = 50 light oil

Since most factories are lacking petroleum gas more than anything else, most people will effectively have 12% efficiency, not 20%.

Ok, i've doubled the fuel efficiency, so now it consumes 8/s for the same power output, 200 units of diesel fuel will produce 200MJ when burned