Factorio Forums

OvermindDL1 wrote:Got another bug by clicking replace ...

I forget delete it, thanks you
I like my changelog

RU: при нажатии на кислород в меню мода выдало ошибку Error while running the event handler: __Cursed-Exp__/scripts/functions_pollution.lua:31: bad argument #1 to 'floor' (number expected, got nil)
EN: when you touch the oxygen in menu mod, I get an error Error while running the event handler: __Cursed-Exp__/scripts/functions_pollution.lua:31: bad argument #1 to 'floor' (number expected, got nil)

Dariel92 wrote:RU: при нажатии на кислород в меню мода выдало ошибку Error while running the event handler: __Cursed-Exp__/scripts/functions_pollution.lua:31: bad argument #1 to 'floor' (number expected, got nil)
EN: when you touch the oxygen in menu mod, I get an error Error while running the event handler: __Cursed-Exp__/scripts/functions_pollution.lua:31: bad argument #1 to 'floor' (number expected, got nil)

ES: Solucionado para el parche 0.3.5, actualizo solo este problema porque shadow no actualizó el modpack a 0.3.4 :p (al pedo lo pongo en español, nadie habla esta lengua perdida en este foro)
EN: Solved for 0.3.5, i'll update only this issue because shadow hasn't updated modpack 0.3.4
NOTE: i haven't problem with oxygen mod, my buttons works perfectly :/

L0771 wrote:

Dariel92 wrote:RU: при нажатии на кислород в меню мода выдало ошибку Error while running the event handler: __Cursed-Exp__/scripts/functions_pollution.lua:31: bad argument #1 to 'floor' (number expected, got nil)
EN: when you touch the oxygen in menu mod, I get an error Error while running the event handler: __Cursed-Exp__/scripts/functions_pollution.lua:31: bad argument #1 to 'floor' (number expected, got nil)

ES: Solucionado para el parche 0.3.5, actualizo solo este problema porque shadow no actualizó el modpack a 0.3.4 :p (al pedo lo pongo en español, nadie habla esta lengua perdida en este foro)
EN: Solved for 0.3.5, i'll update only this issue because shadow hasn't updated modpack 0.3.4

v0.3.5

- Only a oxygen bug, if you don't use oxygen, don't need this update

NOTE: i haven't problem with oxygen mod, my buttons works perfectly :/

Yeah, it is only a problem with the Oxygen mod, your code there is perfect. I detailed the issue on the Oxygen board, if it ever gets updated: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 644#p84644

i didnt buy talent Tier 4 (no one - which add bonus talents) but in last version i've started to get Talent parts when craft in hand. is this a bug?

For better or worse, no, it's not a bug.
L0 has decided to make talents regularly drop for the player without farming trees or mobs, or the already existing talent.

flexoleonhart wrote:i didnt buy talent Tier 4 (no one - which add bonus talents) but in last version i've started to get Talent parts when craft in hand. is this a bug?

isn't a bug, and i think i'll change talents 4 (are useful, i think are the better talents, but no one like this) for a bonus of talent's part.
I have mining lvl 150 now and "only" mining is like a talent's farm with 8 fields, but the talent's farm is passive...
And you win parts: mining, cutting trees, crafting, crafting donations and arrows (for exploration, i tried give talents when footing, but isn't balanced), killing bitters (like a talent tier 5 but the talent is greater) and all the time (by defense, is harder to uplevel, i can't give a talent part every time than receive damage(i can XD))

First of all - nice mod and big thx for your effort.

Just a suggestion - you probably should make the T1 recipe (the one which require parts) more visible or just use an icon which is different than all others.. and here is why:

I'm new to this mod.. and I just spent like 30 minutes to figure out what to do with talent parts I read somewhere that you need the exchanger so I built one and looked at possible recipes. I saw all the T1->T2, T2<T1 etc etc and I was like "OK, that's NOT IT, I have to look somewhere else".
Because you know.. you look at 1st one, 2nd one, 3rd one and they all fall into the same pattern X of lower lvl -> higher lvl or the other way around.

Then after another search thru google and forum I read sth about it being >hidden< among Exchanger recipes.
Only then I looked >carefully< at all recipes to realize that there are TWO DIFFERENT recipes to make T1 and the correct one is in fact hidden among all others.

So.. long story short - making a different icon for this particular one would probably be appreciated by ppl new to this mod.
(sorting the icons would also work.. so that both T1 would be in same spot - much easier to notice that there are TWO of them)

Qcor wrote:First of all - nice mod and big thx for your effort.

Thanks you

First, all suggestions are accepted and I really appreciate each one

Qcor wrote:Just a suggestion - you probably should make the T1 recipe (the one which require parts) more visible or just use an icon which is different than all others.. and here is why:

I'm new to this mod.. and I just spent like 30 minutes to figure out what to do with talent parts I read somewhere that you need the exchanger so I built one and looked at possible recipes. I saw all the T1->T2, T2<T1 etc etc and I was like "OK, that's NOT IT, I have to look somewhere else".
Because you know.. you look at 1st one, 2nd one, 3rd one and they all fall into the same pattern X of lower lvl -> higher lvl or the other way around.

Then after another search thru google and forum I read sth about it being >hidden< among Exchanger recipes.
Only then I looked >carefully< at all recipes to realize that there are TWO DIFFERENT recipes to make T1 and the correct one is in fact hidden among all others.

So.. long story short - making a different icon for this particular one would probably be appreciated by ppl new to this mod.
(sorting the icons would also work.. so that both T1 would be in same spot - much easier to notice that there are TWO of them)

Ok, I'll put the recipe above all others and i'll change the icon, i want to do a tutorial too

i want to do a tutorial too

YES PLEASE! It's not that complicated but some kind of spotlight would be rly rly nice.


Also I ran into a problem/bug(?). I'd like to buy my first mine (T3 talent) but whenever I click the button I get this message: Not have enough space.
First I thought it's about my inventory but it was far from full. As it turns out you need a free spot on your hot bar

Qcor wrote:

i want to do a tutorial too

YES PLEASE! It's not that complicated but some kind of spotlight would be rly rly nice.


Also I ran into a problem/bug(?). I'd like to buy my first mine (T3 talent) but whenever I click the button I get this message: Not have enough space.
First I thought it's about my inventory but it was far from full. As it turns out you need a free spot on your hot bar

If you want i can do it, but is intencional, when just buy a mine, some ppl goes to builds > mines, maybe i need to change the message.

The changes for 0.3.6 are:
- Now colors of flying text are of color of player (helpful for MP)
- Modified functions of walls (first step for gates!) - bugs expected -
- Now can craft 8 donations and 16 stacks of arrows / day
- Now el maximo de la masa esta bien calculado (have more mass, but isn't the max of the wall)
- Ahora la muralla regenera 1% de masa cada 3 secs (before 5%)
- Modified bonus of class (now affects the base)
- Changed recipe's icon of talent tier 1
- Fixed bonus general of gui
- Now bodies are cheaper

- Now all entities, items and recipes are created with a base entity, item or recipe (with this i can add how many entities i want and is very functional with changes of factorio's version)

I need something more on this version?
I like 0.3.5 is very stable i think

And today i've played with the new forum!!!!

I feel like I'm missing something here.. I don't get the idea of a bow.
When compared to a simple machine gun with piercing ammo (or even normal one) it looks super weak. Shorter range is one thing but the real problem is shooting speed. 0.3 per sec compared to 15 per second ( more like 20ish per second with early upgrades).
The dps difference is just enormous.

So the question is - what am I missing here..? Cause I rly doubt that it is so weak intentionally.

Qcor wrote:I feel like I'm missing something here.. I don't get the idea of a bow.
When compared to a simple machine gun with piercing ammo (or even normal one) it looks super weak. Shorter range is one thing but the real problem is shooting speed. 0.3 per sec compared to 15 per second ( more like 20ish per second with early upgrades).
The dps difference is just enormous.

So the question is - what am I missing here..? Cause I rly doubt that it is so weak intentionally.

The bow is a problem.
Ok, i'll give more dps in low levels, to do same dmg than pistol with range and bow at lvl 1.
And i'll increse the speed at high levels, but i can't do a bow lvl 1 same like machinegun (tested, bow can kill a big biter with only 1 hit)

But isn't compatible with hardcorio bitters for now

I really like the idea of leveling up this whole stuff
It is true that it can be very powerful in the end game but what about early and mid-game?

From my perspective, as a person who is new to this mod, my thought process was like this:
OK, so this mod is all about blood, so lets make a tree farm to get more hearts/blood to get more talents. ( and I made 4 tree farms )
Then I realized that it is painfully slow to get more talents this way so as soon as I had enough to make T3 talent I invested in first fisher hoping that it will speed things up.. and again - no such luck still slow as hell.

About the same time I got my 2nd fisher I was attacked by biters for the first time.. so now I have to decide how to defend myself. On the one hand I have a bow which will be IMBA some day (but certainly not in near future because my blood income is still just not good enough) and on the other hand I can use submachine gun with lvl3 speed and lvl3 dmg (because I still only have red/green packs)
So basically it gets down to a simple choice of bow (7dmg / 0.3 shots per second) vs machinegun (sth like 8dmg / 20 shots per second).

My point is - by the time you are forced to use a weapon for the first time the bow is waaaaaay behind the vanilla guns, and you just don't have any FAST way to catch up... despite the fact that I was investing in blood generating stuff from the beginning.

IMHO the good starting point (dmg wise) for a bow would be somewhere above pistol and below machinegun so it could be used to defend the first attacks.

I hope it makes sense It's also possible that I suck at this and missed some great way of generating more blood.. which would solve all above problems

Ok, i'm making a lot of new formules, my old formula is very wrong:


Now i have 2 formules.
The first just subtracts 0.02 of attackspeed to every level, lineal in attackspeed, but every level gains more attackspeed: (6-x*0.02)


And the seconds (My preffer), adds 0.2 shoots/sec to every level, lineal in shoots/sec (60/(x*0.2+10))

L0771 wrote:Ok, i'm making a lot of new formules, my old formula is very wrong:

Old Formula

Now i have 2 formules.
The first just subtracts 0.02 of attackspeed to every level, lineal in attackspeed, but every level gains more attackspeed: (6-x*0.02)

New Formula 1

And the seconds (My preffer), adds 0.2 shoots/sec to every level, lineal in shoots/sec (60/(x*0.2+10))

new Formula 2

I think the new formula 1 is better (imo) because it matchs better what you would expect from a RPG (and this mod kinda makes factorio one )
it seems more logical for me to have a stronger boost nea the end than in the beginning

what about arrow dmg and dmg type?
Do you want it to be flat 7 dmg with no piercing effect? or would it scale somehow?

StanFear wrote:I think the new formula 1 is better (imo) because it matchs better what you would expect from a RPG (and this mod kinda makes factorio one )
it seems more logical for me to have a stronger boost nea the end than in the beginning

I understand your point, but in a rpg the highest ranks are harder, here, every lvls costs 1 talent tier 2
But it's ok, i'll use formula 2, i've posted all that numbers because i don't like see only my point of view

Qcor wrote:what about arrow dmg and dmg type?
Do you want it to be flat 7 dmg with no piercing effect? or would it scale somehow?

piercing effect don't exists, only have physical, acid, laser, explosion, impact, poison and fire, "piercing" bullets are only physical dmg.
Arrows are physical, but i can change to impact, but bitters don't have impact armor, is soo unbalanced.
Tested with 10 arrows/sec and it's ok, a bit easy, but no one likes the bow... (it's ok with small bitters)

Additional:
Testing walls, 69 bases, 4416 walls (i don't know who want too many walls...)
I'll need other way...

It looked a bit off so I did some calculations... and thinking.
First of all we have to answer possibly the most important question here - why would ppl use bow instead of any other weapon?

IMO the answer is as follows:
It should be BETTER or at least very similar to other weapons available at the same stage of the game or when it matters the most.

Now the question is - WHEN it matters the most? WHEN do you actually need it/use it. IMO it is when you start attacking biter bases.. aka midgame, when you already have blue science packs and to push research any further you just have to go out there and kill few bases to get alien artifacts.
Before that, in early stages, you probably just relay on few turrets here and there and your personal weapon does not impact your gameplay.
To a degree it could be also important in the late game but you probably already have tanks/combat robots etc by then so in late game it is more of a personal choice - do I want to get imba armor+gun and blow up stuff 'by hand' or do I want to go full high-tech and lets say use construction robots+blueprints to annihilate biters without even shooting one bullet.

So the conclusion IMO is easy - most important moment is when you start attacking biter bases in mid-game.

OK, now we know WHEN, so lets establish our main competition at this stage of the game.

What do we have at our disposal at that stage? Well... probably most of stuff up to blue science packs. So in terms of gun upgrades that would mean dmg 4 and shooting speed 4. (according to wiki it is +60% dmg and +100% shooting speed).
Also at that stage of the game our main concern are probably medium (maybe even big) biters, because honestly small ones are not even worth mentioning.

Sooo.. time to do some math. How effective is our standard machine gun vs medium biters?

base dmg: 5
base shooting speed: 15 /s
upgraded dmg: 5+60% = 8
upgraded speed 15+100% = 30/s
medium biter armor = 4
effective dmg per bullet = 8dmg -4(armor) = 4
effective dps = 4 * 30/s = 120 dps

and vs big biters:
big biter armor = 8
effective dmg per bullet = 1/(2 - (8 - 8)) = 1/2 ( I am NOT SURE if that is correct, could be outdated formula, I took it from wiki)
effective dps = 1/2 * 30/s = 15dps

OK so now we know our competition. For our bow to be a preferred choice here it should be at least as good as it's main competitor which means at least 120dps vs medium and 15dps vs big biters. So the question is how many lvls do we need on our bow to match those dps values.

bow vs medium biter
base dmg = 7
base shooting speed = 10.20 /s (taken from table for formula 2)
upgraded dmg = 7
upgraded speed = X/s - that is the question
effective dmg per bullet = 7dmg -4(armor) = 3
effective dps = 3* X/s - we want that to be 120 so basic math - 3*X=120, X=40/s
So to match the dps of a machinegun we need our bow to be lvl 150... yeaaaaaa...

bow vs big biter
effective dmg per bullet = 1/(2 - (7-8)) = 1/3 (again - not sure if correct, see above)
effective dps = 1/3 * X/s
To match the machine gun we need it to be = 15dps. So 1/3*X=15, X=45/s and that means we need our bow to be lvl 175.

The bottom line is - our bow at lvls 160ish would perform about the same as our machinegun at this stage of the game.
The question now is - is that a viable option? How long it would take to get to that lvl?

Out of pure curiosity I'll calculate this based on my current in-game setup witch consists of 4 cursed tree farms. 1 tree gives 1 heart per 1 day iirc..but you need to replant seeds which takes about 20 hearts (to get enough blood to craft new seeds) so 4 farms means 4*(49-20)= 116hearts per factorio day.
Now how much would I need to get 160lvl bow.. 160*T2 talents = 160*5*T1 talents = 160*5*6 parts = 160*5*6*4 hearts... = 19.200 hearts.
Meaning about 165 factorio days.. so roughly 19 HOURS of real time.
Compare that to how easily you can get upgraded machine gun.. hehe


OK so clearly sth is still wrong with the balance. If you'd ask me what is wrong then I'd say that the main problem is the BASE DMG = 7 (or the fact that it is not scaling and/or scaling horribly). Here is why:

Lets say that you just killed you first biter bases and got to a point where you can research dmg5 upgrade for your ammo. Now your effective dps of your machine gun vs big biters goes from 15dps to 30dps. And what about our bow? It's already at lvl175 (15dps).. to get 30dps out of it you'd have to lvl it up to lvl 400.

Hope I didn't mess up any math here. If so then pls just ignore my wall of text cheers

ok, first, bow lvl 250 is because i need "load" all bows before start the game, with the new update i can add how many bows i want (if i want 1m, i only need change "250" for "1000000", i think "late-game" for a normal game is 100-150
I don't count pistol... is for first 5 min.

• Attack speed:
  • Machine gun:
    • Without tech: 15 /s
    • Science pack 1: + 40% = 15 + 6 = 21 /s
    • Science pack 2: + 30% = 15 + 10.5 = 25.5 /s
    • Science pack 3: + 30% = 15 + 15 = 30 /s
    • Science pack 4: + 60% = 15 + 24 = 39 /s
  • Bow:
    • Lvl 1: 25 /s
    • Lvl 10: 26.5 /s
    • Lvl 25: 30 /s
    • Lvl 50: 40 /s
    • Lvl 100: 60 /s
    • Lvl > 100 isn't a normal game
• Range:
  • Machine gun:
    • Always 15
  • Bow: - Lineal, i don't like it
    • Lvl 1: 10
    • Lvl 10: 11
    • Lvl 25: 12.5
    • Lvl 50: 15
    • Lvl 100: 20
    • Lvl 250: 36 XD
• Damage:
  • Regular Magazine: (I'll show this because cursed arrows are very cheap, i think are cheaper than Regular Magazine)
    • Without tech: 2
    • Science pack 1: + 10% = 2 + 0.2 = 2.2
    • Science pack 2: + 30% = 2 + 0.8 = 2.8
    • Science pack 3: + 20% = 2 + 1.2 = 3.2
    • Science pack 4: + 60% = 2 + 2.4 = 4.4
  • Piercing rounds magazine:
    • Without tech: 5
    • Science pack 1: + 10% = 5 + 0.5 = 5.5
    • Science pack 2: + 30% = 5 + 2 = 7
    • Science pack 3: + 20% = 5 + 3 = 8
    • Science pack 4: + 60% = 5 + 6 = 11
  • Arrows: (Upgradeable with bow level (the stat, not the bow)) - Lineal, and every level is harder than before
    • Lvl 1: 7
    • Lvl 10: 11.5
    • Lvl 25: 19
    • Lvl 50: 31.5
    • Lvl 100: 65.5
    • Lvl 1000: 506.5 <- loooool... yep, i have 1000 arrows, but in a normal game can't get more than lvl 50

En resumen:
Damage, i can do a no-lineal formula, with less dmg in low levels, starting from 5 and ~15 at lvl 50
Range, i can do a no-lineal formula, but with few changes
Attack speed, i think the numbers above are right