Factorio Forums

Posted: **Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:48 am**

It is painful trying to make concrete blocks just by using the stone by-product from frothing copper dust. I cant even use the copper concentrate yet, but Im making loads of it in order to get the crushed stone I need to make concrete.

Im not sure if its intentional or not, but the forge has an icon that looks like a forge, and when placed instead looks completely different - like a modified science lab.

Posted: **Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:50 pm**

Crushed Stone is definitely a bug. I went through the code, and realized that when I removed the tech requirement for Crushers and the various ore crushing recipes, I never set just plain old Crushed Stone to be enabled (because its in the concrete file, and not the metallurgy one). Stone will be crushable in a Crusher (duh) before the real 4.1 release, and it will automatically migrate on your current saves.

Storing Red Mud is supposed to be annoying. Its annoying in real life! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_mud My advice is just to build a field of reservoirs for it.

Posted: **Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:57 pm**

Well - the offshore dump was a thematic suggestion, and one which has a significant tradeoff - its massive pollution output (duh).

Im going to be adding it to my games anyway, but I thought it was a fair suggestion, given that it gives you an option. Gameplay wise, options are good. And lets face it, in real life environmentalists are the reason red mud isnt just dumped wholesale into the nearest body of water, right?

no?

damn, well it was worth a shot

Posted: **Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:48 pm**

Offshoredump has a slight bug, by reloding a save with build dumps, you have to break replace them, because the somtimes stop working.

But regardless, it makes no sense for a game to impelement something with no use damien.
I reallife we have no choise but to deal with it, but in a game it makes no sens whatsoever.
Please reconsider using that stuf ... hell what do i know pressing it into bricks?
Or something in that direction

Posted: **Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:20 pm**

I think something is wrong with the electric furnaces in the alpha? I can't put anything into them and all the recipes are red.

EDIT: Okay, after I researched tin / lead, I saw a different set of recipes and I can make solder in it. Can we no long make iron-plates without a fuel burning furnace? If the electric furnace will not be meant for that anymore... I also have molten iron that I can only turn to steel and not iron plates?

Posted: **Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:29 pm**

With respect to red mud...I like the idea that i have to do something with it, but I wish the solution was better than to fill up a bunch of containers.... for me this mostly means coming through and deconstructing them every once in a while, which has no consequence because the red mud just vanishes. I think dump that may required energy to operate and emits high pollution is better in that regard.

I use the evaporators for that purpose for many types of gases and occasionally water. For evaporators, I don't really like that there is an output of 1/10 the input. Every time I have to feed the output back to the input... there doesn't seem to be a good reason for having to do that, especially when most of the time I am just venting gases.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:41 am**

pib - I actually sent a message to the devs about that. I'd rather the evaporators just destroy the water with no output, but the game won't let you make a recipe with no outputs, it just returns an error saying 'you must have at least one output'. No reason for it at all really, as far as I can tell, they just didn't except people to want to design a recipe that destroys stuff. Especially because it supports making a recipe with no inputs, like the air condensers. Hopefully they change it, but I bet its a low priority with 0.12 going on.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:57 am**

The tin plate recipe is buggy (it can't be made in the forge like is probably intended, and I suspect the ingredients are wrong).

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:36 pm**

pib wrote:I think something is wrong with the electric furnaces in the alpha? I can't put anything into them and all the recipes are red.

EDIT: Okay, after I researched tin / lead, I saw a different set of recipes and I can make solder in it. Can we no long make iron-plates without a fuel burning furnace? If the electric furnace will not be meant for that anymore... I also have molten iron that I can only turn to steel and not iron plates?

Im also currently hoping there is a way to make iron plates using a forge.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:02 pm**

Blu3wolf wrote:
pib wrote:Can we no long make iron-plates without a fuel burning furnace? If the electric furnace will not be meant for that anymore... I also have molten iron that I can only turn to steel and not iron plates?
Im also currently hoping there is a way to make iron plates using a forge.

For historical reasons we call high-quality iron by the name "steel".

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:06 pm**

db48x wrote:
Blu3wolf wrote:
pib wrote:Can we no long make iron-plates without a fuel burning furnace? If the electric furnace will not be meant for that anymore... I also have molten iron that I can only turn to steel and not iron plates?
Im also currently hoping there is a way to make iron plates using a forge.
For historical reasons we call high-quality iron by the name "steel".

And for gameplay reasons, I am not able to use high quality iron in the same recipes that normally use pig iron.

If the mod included a second recipe for everything, so that you could use steel in it instead of iron, then I would accept that. However I think a better option would just be the ability to turn molten iron into iron plates.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:44 pm**

+1 to Blu3wolf, this is a game play issue as well...

But It doesn't even matter anyway, as damienreave explained, O2 is required with molten iron to reduce the carbon content of the metal to make steel. Thus:

Forge(Molten Iron + O2) = Steel
Forge(Molten Iron) = Iron

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:08 pm**

pib wrote:The tin plate recipe is buggy (it can't be made in the forge like is probably intended, and I suspect the ingredients are wrong).

Yes, I noticed the same thing. Here's how I fixed it. First, I extracted the mod from its zip file, then edited prototypes/metallurgy.lua to change the forge-tin recipe prototype to this:

Code: Select all

  {
    type = "recipe",
    name = "forge-tin",
    enabled = false,
    category = "forge",
    energy_required = 35,
    ingredients = {{type="fluid", name="molten-tin", amount=10}},
    result = "tin-plate",
    result_count = 10,
    subgroup = "raw-plates"
  },

Then, in the game I ran the command

Code: Select all

/c game.forces.player.resetrecipes()

to reload the recipes from the prototypes.

BTW, fixing the crushed stone recipe is simpler:

Code: Select all

/c game.forces.player.recipes["crushed-stone"].enabled = true

edit: fixed an error in the code for resetting the recipes.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:39 pm**

pib wrote:+1 to Blu3wolf, this is a game play issue as well...

But It doesn't even matter anyway, as damienreave explained, O2 is required with molten iron to reduce the carbon content of the metal to make steel. Thus:

Forge(Molten Iron + O2) = Steel
Forge(Molten Iron) = Iron

Hmm. Ill try that, but I couldnt see a forge recipe that allowed that.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:40 pm**

It doesn't work that way... I was responding to db48x

db48x wrote:
Blu3wolf wrote:
pib wrote:Can we no long make iron-plates without a fuel burning furnace? If the electric furnace will not be meant for that anymore... I also have molten iron that I can only turn to steel and not iron plates?
Im also currently hoping there is a way to make iron plates using a forge.
For historical reasons we call high-quality iron by the name "steel".

I was pointing out that the molten iron still needed extra steps to become "high quality", and so his comment didn't really provide a good explanation of what would happen if you were allowed to cool the molten steel material down directly into plates.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:48 pm**

pib wrote:I was pointing out that the molten iron still needed extra steps to become "high quality", and so his comment didn't really provide a good explanation of what would happen if you were allowed to cool the molten steel material down directly into plates.

True enough

I merely meant that there's a symmetry between low-quality copper (produced in smelters) and high-quality copper (produced in forges) on the one hand and iron (in smelters) and steel (in forges) on the other.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:03 pm**

I see

I found a problem with technology dependencies... The heat exchanger takes brass to make which is a problem because you won't be able to make brass without argon, because the zinc plate is made in a chemical plant.

Also, it is impossible to unlock the sulfuric acid recipe.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:26 am**

This is just a balance thing, but I think tin and lead are used too much for the cost of acquiring them. Solder takes 4 lead + 6 tin to produce 5 solder, and then each advanced circuit (and processing unit) needs 2 solder. I suggest making the solder recipe give 10 solder, and reducing the requirement to 1 solder per circuit. Otherwise you have to process vast quantities of copper ore and store the concentrate.

You might also consider a hybrid solution with both subsidiary ore as well as (smaller) deposits of tin/lead/zinc/aluminum/etc. These are not exactly unknown here on Earth, after all.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:03 am**

db48x wrote:
pib wrote:I was pointing out that the molten iron still needed extra steps to become "high quality", and so his comment didn't really provide a good explanation of what would happen if you were allowed to cool the molten steel material down directly into plates.
True enough

I merely meant that there's a symmetry between low-quality copper (produced in smelters) and high-quality copper (produced in forges) on the one hand and iron (in smelters) and steel (in forges) on the other.

Similar problem. Lots of things force me to use lower quality materials even when I have no reason to keep old outmoded lines open other than the fact that recipes wont let me use high quality versions of those materials.

I have craploads of high quality copper plates at the moment. I am trying to make rifle ammo as well - and have a shortage of low quality copper. Naturally of course I cant use high quality copper plate to make rifle ammo though, that would be ridiculous.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:44 pm**

Blu3wolf - Look into making Advanced Rifle Magazines. They do more damage than the regular ones, and will consume high quality copper in the process rather than low.

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