[MOD 0.14] AAI Vehicles: Miner

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Earendel
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Re: [MOD 0.14] AAI Vehicles: Miner

Post by Earendel » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:00 pm

Version 0.3.5 has a mod setting where you can change a mining speed multiplier.

The mining power for higher tiers has been increased so you can ming harder ores from other mods (angels / bobs).

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Re: [MOD 0.14] AAI Vehicles: Miner

Post by aka13 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:34 pm

Can you please look into mk5 miner and sulfuric barrels? It still dupes empty barrels, in humongous amounts. It would be lovely.
Pony/Furfag avatar? Opinion discarded.

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Re: [MOD 0.14] AAI Vehicles: Miner

Post by Philip017 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:20 am

regarding the miner mod, independent of your other mods.

I have a few suggestions, not sure if any are possible...

1. it would be nice if i could hover my mouse over the miner and see how much fuel it has. perhaps a pop-up of the storage box, same as if i open it, but don't have to click on it and close it, and cant interact with anything inside.
2. possible to change the animation to not animate if the miner is not working. for example if the storage is full, out of fuel, out of resources to mine, no barrels to fill.
3. possible to not mine fluids if there has never been empty barrel in it's inventory. why? because they eat ALOT of coal, fine if they are working on mining the oil and properly set up for it, but if they are sitting near (how close do they need to be? like these things have a huge range) an oil deposit they will eat all their coal and not mine any oil because there is no empty barrels inside.
4. perhaps possible to limit fluids to once it's internal storage is full (100 barrels?) it stops eating coal because it has no more room, like when the ores storage is full?

this feedback comes from the use of all mixed up ores, where all resources are mixed up all over the world.

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Re: [MOD 0.14] AAI Vehicles: Miner

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:28 am

Thank you for this awesome mod !
DiRaven wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:58 pm
Earendel wrote:No, but I can add a setting in the future. Given the number of mining structures that go into the recipe the mining speed should be balanced so if I add a setting it should apply to all mining equipment.
Well to be honest one-time investement in resources is still not enough comparing to how powerful they are. But hey, may be it's just me. Or may be it was because I was trying them out without angels/bobs. Anyways, thank you for your hard work!
Well, let's see :

Burner mining drill (with AAI Industry) :
0.25 ore/s
150 kW
12 pu/min = 0.2 pu/s
costs 4*2+7= 15 ores
2x2 footprint
0 extra range

Mining Vehicle Mk1 (with AAI Industry) :
1.25*1*100/100 = 1.25 ore/s (the info text says 1 - it's wrong?)
1*300000*0.95^0*60/60*0.001 = 300 kW (the info data is misleading ? 25 kW is 50 kW/200% efficiency, for driving...)
1*0.001*0.95^0*60 = 0.06 pu/s (seems to kind of fit with the 0.8 pollution seen over a couple of dozen seconds extracting 18 iron ore with 2 wood...)
costs 20*2+73 = 113 ores
3x3 footprint
1 extra range

So you get :
5x mining speed for :
2x power cost
0.3x the pollution/s
7.533..x the capex
roughly 4/9=0.44.. the miner density

Is it me or even with the higher upfront resource cost (+~50% more per speed) they are way too good, considering the energy cost (2.5 times less per ore) but especially the tiny amount of pollution (16.66.. times less per ore!) that they seem to produce ?

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Re: [MOD 0.14] AAI Vehicles: Miner

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:31 pm

Ok, now let's see for the next tier :

Mining Vehicle Mk2 :
1.25*3*100/100 = 3.75 ore/s (the info text says 3 - it's wrong?)
3*300000*0.95^1*60/60*0.001 = 855 kW (the info data is misleading ? 35 kW is 70 kW/200% efficiency, for driving...)
3*0.001*0.95^1*60 = 0.171 pu/s
costs 253+60+30*5+40*2 = 543 ores
3x3 footprint
2-3 extra range ("round" instead of "square" range ?)

So, compared to Mk1 :
- it drills 3x faster, for :
- 2.85x the power and pollution/s
- ~4.8x the capex (actually more than that, as we're starting to see some high-level products that need a significant amount of energy...)

Electric Mining Drill :
0.5 ore/s
90 kW
10 pu/min = 0.166.. pu/s
costs 27+12+4*2 = 47 ores
3x3 footprint
1 extra range

But, since it's electric, we also have to add the power plant costs for a fair comparison !
At that point, we have :

Burner Turbine Generator :
1.8 MW (efficiency 95%, for a consumption of 1.89... MW - BTW the info text here for energy consumption is, again, quite misleading - the internal fake steam engine can't produce 2 MW - so the internal fake boiler can only work at 90% of its capacity !)
5 pu/min * 90% = 4.5 pu/min = 0.075 pu/s
costs 5+22+12 = 39 ore
4x4 = 16 footprint
For 1 Electric Mining Drill, we have to use 0.090/1.800=1/20 of a Burner Turbine Generator, resulting in extra :
0.00375 pu/s for a total of 0.170... pu/s, while for the same extraction speed, a Mining Vehicle Mk2 emits 0.171/(3.75/0.5) = 0.0228. pu/s, so 7.46... times less per ore.

Boiler + 2 Steam Engines :
1.8 MW (efficiency 100%)
30 pu/min = 0.5 pu/s
costs 5+4+2*(29+9) = 76 ores
2x3+2*3x5=36 footprint
(not counting offshore pump & pipes...)
For 1 Electric Mining Drill, we have to use 0.090/1.800=1/20 of a (Boiler + 2 Steam Engines) (again), resulting in extra :
0.025 pu/s for a total of 0.192... pu/s, while for the same extraction speed, a Mining Vehicle Mk2 emits 0.171/(3.75/0.5) = 0.0228 pu/s, so 8.42... times less per ore.

As for the power consumption, Mining Vehicle Mk2 consumes (855 kW / 90 kW) / (3.75 / 0.5) = 1.26.. times more (this time) per ore.

BTW, Burner Turbine Generator just seems to be *way* to good, polluting 6.66.. times less per output power than vanilla boilers !
It you have biters on, vanilla boilers seem to be just worthless, much better to use the very clean Burner Turbine Generator, especially since if you power them with coal, you have the much cleaner Mining Vehicles to extract it too !
(And it's not the tiny 5% efficiency loss that is going to change that...)

Honestly, it sound like, unlike what the changelog says, the pollution numbers haven't been updated for 0.17.12+, and both the Mining Vehicles and the Burner Turbine Generator should emit 60 times what they do now ??

I guess that if one is really short on coal, going back to the vanilla boiler & electric miner might be advisable, but otherwise it just doesn't seem to be worth it !

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Re: [MOD 0.14] AAI Vehicles: Miner

Post by BlueTemplar » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:10 am

Oh, I have to note that for the next tier (in the Oil Age), I don't see a big improvement in efficiency - while electric miners get efficiency modules that cut down their power use and pollution by 5 (and even more in your mod, since there's a second pollution reduction effect...)

However, the next tiers seem to be also a bit mismatched, as efficiency modules are a Green Science tech, while the requirement of electric engines places Mining Vehicle Mk3 squarely into Blue Science (even though its tech itself is Green Science...) - a consequence of recent vanilla balance changes that haven't yet been adapted to ?

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Re: [MOD 0.14] AAI Vehicles: Miner

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:46 pm

Ok, let's see for tier 3 miners :

Mining Vehicle Mk3 :
1.25*6*100/100 = 7.5 ore/s (the info text says 6 - it's wrong?)
6*300000*0.95^2*60/60*0.001 = 1 624.5 kW (the info data is misleading ? 47.5 kW is 95 kW/200% efficiency, for driving...)
6*0.001*0.95^2*60 = 0.3249 pu/s
costs 253+222+60*5+58.7*2+(12+4.5+2*5+0.2*2)*10 + oil (& coal) = 1161.4 ores + oil (& coal)
3x3 footprint
3.5 extra range ("round" instead of "square" range ?)

Electric Mining Drill with 3 SpaceX efficiency 1 modules (though could have stuck with 2) :
0.5 ore/s
17.9 kW
1.4 pu/min = 0.0233.. pu/s
costs 27+12+4*2+(32.5+3.7*2+oil&coal)*3 = 166.7 ores (+oil&coal)
3x3 footprint
1 extra range

To power it we can now consider :
Solar Panels :
60kW*70%day = 42kW average
costs 17.5+25+27.5 = 70 ore
3x3 footprint

We'll need 0.426... solar panels per Electric Mining Drill, for an additional cost of 29.833.. ore/drill, for a total cost of 196.533.. ores/drill (+oil&coal).

So, the Mining Vehicle Mk3 mines 15 times faster than the drill, for :
a 5.91... times higher cost (so ~2.5 times better)
13.9... times the pollution (so ~7.9% better)
but this drill+panel setup is now energy-free, while the miner still consumes a whopping 1.6 MW ! (equivalent to ~39 panels - worth in theory 2.33 mk3 miners -, but burner...)

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