[MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

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Re: Is a inventory to inventory compact loader possible?

Post by eduran » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:18 am

adiz75 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:35 pm
As the subject says, is it possible to make a inv<->inv (1x1) loader?
Already exists in the form of inserters. There are a couple of mods that provide faster inserters, if that is what you are looking for.

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Re: Is a inventory to inventory compact loader possible?

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:52 am

adiz75 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:35 pm
As the subject says, is it possible to make a inv<->inv (1x1) loader?
It's not possible. You can fake it with runtime scripting and shenanigans, but the point of loaders was that they operate at belt speeds. They are a belt item and were never intended to be anything else.

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Re: Is a inventory to inventory compact loader possible?

Post by Zavian » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:11 am

adiz75 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:35 pm
As the subject says, is it possible to make a inv<->inv (1x1) loader?
I think https://mods.factorio.com/mod/miniloader will do what you want. (Technically they are very fast inserters rather than loaders, but they function like loaders).

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Re: Is a inventory to inventory compact loader possible?

Post by slippycheeze » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:01 pm

Zavian wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:11 am
adiz75 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:35 pm
As the subject says, is it possible to make a inv<->inv (1x1) loader?
I think https://mods.factorio.com/mod/miniloader will do what you want. (Technically they are very fast inserters rather than loaders, but they function like loaders).
They are very fast inserters exactly because of what they want, if the developer comments are to be believed.

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by dorthak » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:35 pm

Not sure if this was mentioned already, but I've noticed a bug with Deadlock's loaders: when upgrading using the upgrade tool and bots (not sure if it matters if it's regular bots or minibots), some loaders get turned around. Not the flow direction, but the side that the belt is attached too.

I have a number of places where I have belt-loader-box-loader-belt, and after upgrading from yellow to red belts/loaders, both loaders will face the same way.

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by mrvn » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:08 pm

dorthak wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:35 pm
Not sure if this was mentioned already, but I've noticed a bug with Deadlock's loaders: when upgrading using the upgrade tool and bots (not sure if it matters if it's regular bots or minibots), some loaders get turned around. Not the flow direction, but the side that the belt is attached too.

I have a number of places where I have belt-loader-box-loader-belt, and after upgrading from yellow to red belts/loaders, both loaders will face the same way.
Have you enabled snapping of loaders to belts or inventories? Try disabling both.

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by shanemadden » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:28 am

I've been unable to track down exactly what conditions cause the loaders to flip during upgrade, but that's been one I've been chasing a while - if you can get it to happen reliably, would you mind posting a simple example save with a structure layout that reproduces the issue, so that I can sync to your mods and startup settings? Thanks a lot!

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Re: Is a inventory to inventory compact loader possible?

Post by billbo99 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:40 am

adiz75 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:35 pm
As the subject says, is it possible to make a inv<->inv (1x1) loader?
What are you trying to do with a "inv<->inv (1x1) loader" ? Pass from one assembly machine to another at belt speed ?

This mod .. https://mods.factorio.com/mod/belt_buffer_up .. creates a chest 1by2 in size that has 2x loader hidden under the hood. Maybe you could ask the owner to make a 1by1 version that does what you want.

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by dorthak » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:46 pm

shanemadden wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:28 am
I've been unable to track down exactly what conditions cause the loaders to flip during upgrade, but that's been one I've been chasing a while - if you can get it to happen reliably, would you mind posting a simple example save with a structure layout that reproduces the issue, so that I can sync to your mods and startup settings? Thanks a lot!
I'll give it a try.

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Pi-C » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:26 pm

Think I found a bug:
with_stacking.png
Your mod is active and ore can go through all belts.
with_stacking.png (1.68 MiB) Viewed 207 times
stacking_removed.png
Your mod isn't active and ore is blocked in front of where the loader used to be.
stacking_removed.png (1.45 MiB) Viewed 207 times
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Deadlock989 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:44 pm

Pi-C wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:26 pm
Think I found a bug:
with_stacking.png
stacking_removed.png
I wasn't able to reproduce this exactly but I did reproduce oddly blocked belts at random points along their length. Movement was restored as soon as the belt lines were altered in any way.

To be honest I wouldn't even class this as a bug - you removed a mod from a saved game and then tried to play it, and that's rarely going to be pretty. There is nothing a mod can do about being removed because when the save is loaded the mod isn't there to do anything.

I would expect to see similar results if you deleted vanilla loaders or any other kind of belt entity from data.raw and then tried to play a game that had them placed in the middle of active belt segments.

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Pi-C » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:06 am

Deadlock989 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:44 pm
I wasn't able to reproduce this exactly but I did reproduce oddly blocked belts at random points along their length. Movement was restored as soon as the belt lines were altered in any way.
I noticed that too, but you have to see that they are broken before you can fix that.
To be honest I wouldn't even class this as a bug - you removed a mod from a saved game and then tried to play it, and that's rarely going to be pretty. There is nothing a mod can do about being removed because when the save is loaded the mod isn't there to do anything.
I thought somehow that migration scripts could be used, but you're right: it doesn't make sense that a mod could do anything once it has been removed. Guess I need to read up on that migrating stuff again …

BTW: No real game was harmed by removing your mod! It was just a testing setup I used when I fixed another mod that depends on yours; I re-used this setup when I played with dependencies to enforce removal of my mod (original has been restored to working condition, so my mod isn't needed anymore). :-)
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:22 am

Pi-C wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:06 am
I thought somehow that migration scripts could be used, but you're right: it doesn't make sense that a mod could do anything once it has been removed. Guess I need to read up on that migrating stuff again …
Migration is run on saved game load if a mod version change is detected and it matches the version name of the migration script. No mod, no script.

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Pi-C » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:26 am

Thanks for the explanation! :-)
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Deadlock989 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:40 pm

The back_patch that I added to the loaders in this mod five months ago was activated by today's game patch, 0.17.65.

It's incredibly subtle because I was trying to work around it not working at the time, but it's there.

I may do a general graphics refresh for this mod once the full set of high res icons for vanilla is released.

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Zyrconia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:28 am

Hi!

Just stared using stacking beltboxes!

But I have a question. Why is the default stack set to 5? Is there some good throughput reason or otherwise? It is a bit awkward to feed 5 belts in.

If there is no good reason I might change it to 4 or 8.

Thank you!

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Deadlock989 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:39 am

Zyrconia wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:28 am
Hi!

Just stared using stacking beltboxes!

But I have a question. Why is the default stack set to 5? Is there some good throughput reason or otherwise? It is a bit awkward to feed 5 belts in.

If there is no good reason I might change it to 4 or 8.

Thank you!
Common factor of all vanilla stack sizes. Anything that isn't a multiple of 5 results in some subset of items losing overall inventory density when stacked.

What is the problem with feeding 5 belts in? Beltboxes work with one full belt of the same tier. Are you talking about the Crating mod instead?

5belts.png
5belts.png (1.21 MiB) Viewed 88 times

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Zyrconia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:07 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:39 am
Zyrconia wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:28 am
Hi!

Just stared using stacking beltboxes!

But I have a question. Why is the default stack set to 5? Is there some good throughput reason or otherwise? It is a bit awkward to feed 5 belts in.

If there is no good reason I might change it to 4 or 8.

Thank you!
Common factor of all vanilla stack sizes. Anything that isn't a multiple of 5 results in some subset of items losing overall inventory density when stacked.

What is the problem with feeding 5 belts in? Beltboxes work with one full belt of the same tier. Are you talking about the Crating mod instead?


5belts.png
Thanks for the answer. That setup should work!

I mean feeding 5 belts in like this was awkward: https://i.imgur.com/ZihiJBS.gif

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by Deadlock989 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:07 pm

Zyrconia wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:07 pm
Thanks for the answer. That setup should work!

I mean feeding 5 belts in like this was awkward: https://i.imgur.com/ZihiJBS.gif
It would be - 5-way balancers aren't ever going to win any beauty contests.

But there's no reason you have to feed in 5 belts unless you are going for complete maximal efficiency at all costs and you want that fully compressed fully stacked belt. I've built a megabase that used buses with 4 lanes of belts, each fed by 4 sources, using the 5x stack setting, and there were no issues at all with running that. It just means there are some gaps on the bus when it's running at full speed, which is basically never. It's still a 16x bus that looks like a 4x bus.

Alternatively, use the 4x setting. The mod was originally set to 4x but because vanilla ores stack to 50 and 50 isn't divisible by 4, the default was made 5x.

Or use 4x and install some other mod that changes ore stacks to 100.

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Re: [MOD 0.17] Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders

Post by slippycheeze » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:57 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:07 pm
Zyrconia wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:07 pm
Thanks for the answer. That setup should work!

I mean feeding 5 belts in like this was awkward: https://i.imgur.com/ZihiJBS.gif
It would be - 5-way balancers aren't ever going to win any beauty contests.

But there's no reason you have to feed in 5 belts unless you are going for complete maximal efficiency at all costs and you want that fully compressed fully stacked belt. I've built a megabase that used buses with 4 lanes of belts, each fed by 4 sources, using the 5x stack setting, and there were no issues at all with running that. It just means there are some gaps on the bus when it's running at full speed, which is basically never. It's still a 16x bus that looks like a 4x bus.

Alternatively, use the 4x setting. The mod was originally set to 4x but because vanilla ores stack to 50 and 50 isn't divisible by 4, the default was made 5x.

Or use 4x and install some other mod that changes ore stacks to 100.
...or or, just feed them in sequentially so that you gradually increase density as you move along, rather than having all the compression devices horizontally aligned. The inverse of your output filters, even. :)

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