[MOD 0.17] Ore and plate compress

[LethargicChii]

Oh okay! Wow lol, sorry thank you! Did you take into account the expensive recipe settings as well? Steel is 10 iron plates vs 5 with this setting.

[Zaflis]

I'm sorry too, hadn't taken it into account Now in 0.15.5 for PlateCompress it is. Should see it cost 4 compressed iron for 82 seconds it was i think. I matched how expensive recipe was done in main Factorio and it's normal to double the smelting time aswell as cost. Seemed that iron and copper smelting do not change with expensive recipes, so no changes to OreCompress this time.

On a sidenote there is a formula for counting the recipe values, they're not hardcoded numbers. If you were to change for example loss ratio, it should automatically adjust how long it takes to craft to balanced values. I just hope i did that part correct, it definitely works with the default ratios at least.

[mrgasp]

Thanks for fixing this, me and a friend are doing the expensive recipes and found your mod to help with UPS (we belt and use belts to sort things a lot), so smelting directly into an assembler to compress has helped us a lot, we had been wanting to do the same for steel without breaking the expensive game play.

[factoriomayo]

Sorry for late reply, 4s for compressing feels good the last few gameplay hours.

Latest recipes to smelt compressed ores seems out of balance, not?

Original:
7 Steel = 35 Iron = 122,5s
Modded:
7 Steel = 40 Iron = 41s

Original:
16 Iron = 16 Ores = 56s
Modded:
16 Iron = 20 Ores = 14s

20 times higher throughput for raw material with the same infrastructure + an huge speed bonus (7 steel drop down from 122s to just 41s?) at crafting for just 1/8 loss of mats? Uhm, really?

I think there is no need to reducing the crafting time in comparison to the original recipes. You have already a massive (20x) advantage for your logistic infrastructure.

[LethargicChii]

So I noticed a bug with compressed ore. You can't put productivity modules in the furnaces when you have them open, but, you can ctrl+click to force them in, and they do work. You can also insert the productivity modules and then insert the ore and they will work. I'm sure your intention is to not be able to use these, am I correct?

[Zaflis]

I would download this in a heartbeat if you did to ore what you do to coal. Make it smeltable as a compressed block but with some loss.
For example having a compressed (20 ore) block go in to a furnace, take maybe 4x as long as a normal smelt, and outputting maybe 15 plates. Same for iron to steel.

Would massively cut down the smelting setups at the cost of efficiency.

If we go down the path where times are not scaled down, smelting setups will remain just as big as before. Then i don't see why we should have a loss at all. 2 posts are now contradicting, so either one has to use custom configs. I think i am also in favor of reduced crafting time. Like when you fill and empty oil barrels you only need 1 assembler for basic needs. Compressing and decompressing shouldn't be complicated, it's just a step to do before the plate is actually used. Having to make big assemblies everywhere you use compressed resources would not make it fun to use.

So I noticed a bug with compressed ore. You can't put productivity modules in the furnaces when you have them open, but, you can ctrl+click to force them in, and they do work. You can also insert the productivity modules and then insert the ore and they will work. I'm sure your intention is to not be able to use these, am I correct?

Productivity modules can't be used in compressing and decompressing on purpose, one could multiply the resources endlessly. However there wouldn't be any problem when used in smelting. If they can't be used now, i don't really know where to look for the problem... It's propably about the item type for compressed resources that do it. And that does sounds like a bug in Factorio itself.

[LethargicChii]

If we go down the path where times are not scaled down, smelting setups will remain just as big as before. Then i don't see why we should have a loss at all. 2 posts are now contradicting, so either one has to use custom configs. I think i am also in favor of reduced crafting time. Like when you fill and empty oil barrels you only need 1 assembler for basic needs. Compressing and decompressing shouldn't be complicated, it's just a step to do before the plate is actually used. Having to make big assemblies everywhere you use compressed resources would not make it fun to use.

I agree with this. My friend and I use this mod to cut down on our refinery size, and thus increase or UPS in multiplayer. We have a very large base, and every way we can gain UPS is a huge plus.

Productivity modules can't be used in compressing and decompressing on purpose, one could multiply the resources endlessly. However there wouldn't be any problem when used in smelting. If they can't be used now, i don't really know where to look for the problem... It's propably about the item type for compressed resources that do it. And that does sounds like a bug in Factorio itself.

Ah okay, it was my understanding that smelting with the modules was prevented on purpose. So the easy solution right now is to just crtl + click the modules in place. You're probably right about it being a item type issue. As productivity modules only work on intermediate products.

[factoriomayo]

If we go down the path where times are not scaled down, smelting setups will remain just as big as before. Then i don't see why we should have a loss at all. 2 posts are now contradicting, so either one has to use custom configs. I think i am also in favor of reduced crafting time. Like when you fill and empty oil barrels you only need 1 assembler for basic needs. Compressing and decompressing shouldn't be complicated, it's just a step to do before the plate is actually used. Having to make big assemblies everywhere you use compressed resources would not make it fun to use.

Its ok, your mod, your decision. Let me try to discuss to get the best out of the mods:
I don't get the reason that OreCompress must reduce smelting setups. There is no problem to setup up 1000 furnaces, but to deliver enough ores to all of them with belt spamming, 20 lines, dozen splitters and balancers. Burning compressed ores solves this issue by reducing the complexity by factor 20. At most gameplays, you have enough ores, unless you play deathworld or marathon with lower ressources. The loss of 12.5% is negligible in normal games and thats the point where you should balance out your mods for. Did you reduce the loss at burning compressed coal too? I thought there was 20%.

I guess most players are searching for mods which makes the gameplay easier. But please be aware of the vanilla balance/ratio/gameplay. At least with your default config.

I agree with this. My friend and I use this mod to cut down on our refinery size, and thus increase or UPS in multiplayer. We have a very large base, and every way we can gain UPS is a huge plus.

Its the wrong way to change balance/ratios (aka cheating) to gain more UPS.

[Zaflis]

These are current ratios:
Compressed coal burning loss is 20% (from 160MJ down to 128).
Compressed ores smelting loss is 20% with 4x speed.
Compressed steel smelting loss 12.5% with 2x speed.

In any case these are easy to change in recipe.lua files. To bring steel smelting 1:1 in line with vanilla game (with no loss or time change), change:
PlateSmeltRatio = 0.875 to 1.0
Because the time cost is in power of 4 is why we have time scaling of half at the moment.

changing
CompressedIronAmount = 2 to 1 and PlateSmeltRatio = 0.8 should bring loss to 20%, but time cost down to 40%.

[Tetketzu]

I love this mod, it allows productivity to be boosted in more ways then one, not only can I get extra ores and plates out of this mod but just smelting so many ores at once makes it much faster.

The reason for this post tho is I was wondering if you could add recipes that support angel's refining mod like the ability to compress the Iron/Copper Pebbles into compressed ore or the Iron/Copper Nuggets into compressed ore as well.

[Tetketzu]

Love this mod! makes things much more productive and adds a way to gain ore yield at lest the way I have it configured sense I have infinite ores on and eventually they are drained and I hardly have anything coming in so some form of yield enhancement is needed, tho I was wondering if you could add comparability with Agnel's mod that adds Iron/Copper Pebble/Nugget so allow them to be compressed into Compressed Ore?

[Zaflis]

You could try https://mods.factorio.com/mod/compressor as it allows to compress all modded resources along with all other items as well. I have to admit i use it myself in some modded playthroughs If you have gamechanging mods like bobs/angels it is more logical choice now.

[Mattia2510MC]

A quick fix for your mod to work with 0.17.x
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/OreCompressFix

[Zaflis]

I'll see about updating the mods, but please in the future don't make new mod duplicates before asking first. It lets us know there is still interest for these. Or if you want to take over the development. I lost interest cause there's a better mod to do this compression.

edit: Done. There were quite a few lua errors since 0.16 actually but it worked for me now.

[Maddhawk]

I lost interest cause there's a better mod to do this compression.

What would that better mod be?

[Zaflis]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/omnimatter_compression
I've played with it a couple times. There's even a planner tool to convert ore fields directly into compressed ores so miners will output them. Compressed assemblers etc. This is currently the most comprehensive one, but it might have too much stuff even.

Deadlock has a very good one for compressing:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/DeadlockCrating
or
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/deadlock- ... es-loaders

I swear i saw one other new'ish mod for putting items in boxes that wasn't the "Boxing 2", but i can't find it anymore. Lately i've gone with:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/DrKains_StackMultiplier
Use bob's tech to add more robot cargo capacity, faster inserters and belts. But it's simpler to deal with than compressing. Cargo wagons and chests can hold more because of stack count.

[Maddhawk]

I'd seen the smaller version of Deadlock's mod, I also have Noxxy's Stack Multiplier, but it is disabled atm. If I could specify what items I want to increase the stack size for, that would be one thing, but I do not like it increasing the stack sizes for everything. You can quickly reach points where the challenge of managing inventory becomes moot and pointless with either multiplier mod.

Omni Compression doesn't fit the bill either. I'm all for being reasonable and avoiding excessive "realism for immersion" in general, on the other hand there is such a thing as going too far and being able to use compressed items in a recipe is too far.

I tried to use your mod, but I don't get anything showing up in game. No recipes, no errors, no crashes, no increase in stack size to the basic ores, nothing. I just want to compress the base ores OR increase the stack size of the base ores to something between 20-50x greater than the default stack size of 50. This way I can make better use of warehouse facilities for storing speed mined patches that are in the way of where I want to build my next expansion.

If there isn't a way to do that, then I'll just have to god mode and delete the patches out right and place down equivalent patches elsewhere instead.

[Zaflis]

I tried to use your mod, but I don't get anything showing up in game. No recipes, no errors, no crashes, no increase in stack size to the basic ores, nothing.

This mod should have a research that will unlock the recipes. It should give some kind of warning if it has a dependency that doesn't exist anymore, i believe i fixed that sort of thing when 0.17 started. It had requirements of green science or so.

[Maddhawk]

Ah, I hadn't even though to look under research since I was in the middle of worker speed 10.

[Zaflis]

I'd like further discussions to go at merged mod page:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/SimpleCompress

This took me all day... but i am pleased with the result