[MOD 0.12.X] Ore processing & complex material processing

[albatrosv13]

''Eagerly awaiting your next update :>
That migration code would really help me try out recipe changes in game instead of just calculations.''

Does it work now(version 0.7.6)? I tried myself, but the recipes changed with and without that script.

Another opinion baiting - Would it be positive to make further recipes with enriched plates? For example better ammo(this one i already did(haven't yet updated here) - enriching with an enriched plate and energy makes now 13 damage ammo instead of 5) etc. A lot of other mods make those things too, dunno if 'duplicating' those mods is needed.

[Qon]

''Eagerly awaiting your next update :>
That migration code would really help me try out recipe changes in game instead of just calculations.''

Does it work now(version 0.7.6)? I tried myself, but the recipes changed with and without that script.

Another opinion baiting - Would it be positive to make further recipes with enriched plates? For example better ammo(this one i already did(haven't yet updated here) - enriching with an enriched plate and energy makes now 13 damage ammo instead of 5) etc. A lot of other mods make those things too, dunno if 'duplicating' those mods is needed.

I renamed the migration script to 0.7.6 and now when I make a change and reload mods (restart game) the changes are updated in game Thanks
Before your updates did change things in game but that was only because the version number changed. Now I can modify it myself without changing version number (and then be unable to try your changes because I chose a higher number and so on). So this makes it worth while to attempt!

To really take advantage of the complex material processing parts of the mod I would have to rebuild my base from scratch with the complex material processing recipes planned in. So I haven't tested those yet. The ore creation part is a drop-in alternative to mining so I've focused on that first. But I will have to rebuild to make a proper factory anyways so I might go for it. It would have to be after I've done calculations on if the mod is balanced enough for it to be worth the effort though. Complex materials require that you plan ore creation first and it really affects your whole factory design up to coils and gears.

Would I use higher level recipes with enriched plates (or even enriched coils and gears and so on)? Might be more trouble than it's worth unless you get exceptional improvements. I'm not qonvinced yet. Might be great if done well, but seems hard to achieve something balanced and still worth the complications. In the case of ammo: laser turrets are already much simpler and strong enough that I haven't felt the need for anything stronger really. I liked the logistic turrrets mod which has sniper turrets that request ammo from the logistics system. But it had some performance problems so I gave up on it. But long range gun turrets that make ammo supply easier are kind of necessary to beat the just-add-more-laser-turrets technique. I'm trying out a mod called "Factorio Basics" that adds a whole lot of higher mark items. It has 10 damage ammo and even though the recipe is pretty simple I haven't bothered. I manufacture the shotgun shells from that mod but I'm not sure it's was worth the effort even though I do it with logistics bots since destroyer capsules are far superior anyways. If a single gun turret can handle a horde of behemoth biters with your ammo I might use it and turn on the "Swarm" mod q:
But then no other strategy would work and I would be limited to only using that strategy. Kinda boring.
If viewtopic.php?f=97&t=23543 Robot soldiers mod used ammo and if you could deploy and command them automatically and so on, then yes I would want some extremely powerful ammo for them. But at the moment that mod is kinda limited.

If you can come up with something unique that no other mod provides then that would be easier to justify. But I think you should focus on getting ore processing balanced before going further.

[Qon]

I'm currently balancing the mod. It requires about 2.5 times as much energy as regular mining atm and maybe 8 times the area. Non-verified head calculations. But it is in the ballpark of what I think is reasonable. Space and energy requirements might double or halve or stay the same.

Productivity modules are available for the matter compilator recipes also now. When you have a loop and the output that loops back is much smaller than the total output a few more productivity modules don't help much. Speed modules actually works better for "productivity", your non-looping output is doubled if you insert 2x speed modules tier 3 in everything. Of course that also makes everything very energy hungry.

Also the optimal ratios between the machines are much better now with simpler numbers while still posing a challenge to set up if you want something space efficient. With coal coke (iron+copper dust 2 recipe) the ratios is 2:2:1:1:1. So you need 2 pulverizers and ore washers for 1 of each machine that needs processing units to be crafted.

All machines have a crafting speed of 1 now so that you the recipe times are the actual game-seconds that it takes to run them.

I'm not done with stone and coal yet though. I also added something new to the mod. But maybe I should keep that one as a surprise?

The goal here is to make ore processing an expensive but achievable end-game replacement for mining. High volumes of ore output has to be reasonably good in all aspects. I haven't really cared that much about non-looping setups though. I might look at those after a release of the perfect looping balance. But if those aren't energy efficient enough then I can fairly easily make non-looping productivity setups require less energy while keeping ore generation the same by just adjusting the matter compilator accordingly. For ore generation speed modules are better than productivity modules, but that might not be as true for productivity non-looping setups since you do have a finite input. Also the ratios I've calculated have been for no modules which seems to be the right approach since you don't want productivity modules (which are the only ones that change ratios) in looping setups anyways.

[Nedreow]

Great mod, I really enjoy the extra complexity for the reward.

Can you add support for the ores from other mods, like bob's mods?

[bammalar]

Im having trouble trying to update the mod version. I have a save i started with version 0.7.0 and built a large iron/copper loop. I came back to the forum when i ran into the issue with loading coal into the machines. When i try to open my save with 0.7.6 and 0.8.1 i get an error. I have already tried deconstructing all the mod buildings and trying to load it then and i get the same result. Thanks for making a great mod! I hope there is a fix to this problem.

[Qon]

I didn't notice that you had updated the mod since you didn't post about it. I'll try it out when I get time. Hope my merge with your new version goes smoothly. Still haven't fixed stone and coal yet though so I can't release... but eventually

[albatrosv13]

Im having trouble trying to update the mod version. I have a save i started with version 0.7.0 and built a large iron/copper loop. I came back to the forum when i ran into the issue with loading coal into the machines. When i try to open my save with 0.7.6 and 0.8.1 i get an error. I have already tried deconstructing all the mod buildings and trying to load it then and i get the same result. Thanks for making a great mod! I hope there is a fix to this problem.

Error... I don't know what error that could be and i'm sorry, i don't have time to reduplicate your error when i don't know the specifics.

Another thing - oh boy, 0.7.0 is very outdated compared to 0.8.x.

I didn't notice that you had updated the mod since you didn't post about it. I'll try it out when I get time. Hope my merge with your new version goes smoothly. Still haven't fixed stone and coal yet though so I can't release... but eventually

Is your version something like this? - viewtopic.php?f=87&t=8884&start=30

There are two versions offered by other users.

'' It requires about 2.5 times as much energy as regular mining atm and maybe 8 times the area. ''

I see your attention is directed mostly to ore reproduction and how it's compared to mining. I guess we have different playstyles(we have discussed that before). Have you calculated how every step enhances productivity module profit for further machines, thus changing the whole view of mining vs matter compilator? For example, when using productivity modules 2 at every step in non-looping setups, further assembling machines have already 3-4x plate input compared to vanilla productivity module usage. Plus, ores are not at every tile. They are as patched, between some areas. Machines can be put anywhere.

Great mod, I really enjoy the extra complexity for the reward.

Can you add support for the ores from other mods, like bob's mods?

No, too much ''bob this, bob that''. Sorry.

[Qon]

I didn't notice that you had updated the mod since you didn't post about it. I'll try it out when I get time. Hope my merge with your new version goes smoothly. Still haven't fixed stone and coal yet though so I can't release... but eventually

Is your version something like this? - viewtopic.php?f=87&t=8884&start=30

There are two versions offered by other users.

'' It requires about 2.5 times as much energy as regular mining atm and maybe 8 times the area. ''

I see your attention is directed mostly to ore reproduction and how it's compared to mining. I guess we have different playstyles(we have discussed that before). Have you calculated how every step enhances productivity module profit for further machines, thus changing the whole view of mining vs matter compilator? For example, when using productivity modules 2 at every step in non-looping setups, further assembling machines have already 3-4x plate input compared to vanilla productivity module usage. Plus, ores are not at every tile. They are as patched, between some areas. Machines can be put anywhere.

Do you mean viewtopic.php?f=87&t=8884&start=30#p74596 ?
Might have similarities, haven't checked his recipes.
But I have 1 centrifuge for each ore washer in the optimal ratio, which makes the simple line of machine setup very inefficient. So while the ratios are simple numbers there's still challenge to building it so that centrifuge gets both inputs and gets emptied at both outputs.

Not much calculations on productivity non-loops. Those might make your mine last 4 times longer but it doesn't mean you need 4 times less mines if you want some throughput. And speed beacons are hard to fit in between if you try for good ratios and direct insertion.

The machines need a small amount of oil products.Without bergius process mod you need to place it at a small depleted oil patch at least. So not completely position independent. And the bigger area required also puts in some restrictions on where you can place it if you have natives and water on.

[bammalar]

I haven't had any luck finding a solution but I found a work-around. I pulled out the 0.7.0 mod and loaded the save and re-saved it without the mod loaded. Then I was able to migrate to 0.8.1 without issues. Thanks for making a great mod!