Adding Bio Processing to a generated map

[neoc]

Hey,

first I want to say thank you for your great mods - Angel's and Bob's are awesome!

I started a map with those a few days ago and added all of the mods except for Angel's Bio Processing because I thought that's rather for Seablock maps - but then I remembered there are some trees generated by it, so maybe not...

Is there a way to retroactively generate (only) the stuff added by Bio Processing? I'm using RSO but I know that you only need it as long as you want to generate chunks with RSO, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Is Bio Processing overpowered compared to the rest of Angel's which rely heavily on ore processing? I know you can always make stuff out of plain water, but I guess this gets a lot easier with algae. Does Bio Processing add interesting non-overpowered stuff which can be useful on a normal map?

I wonder if there is some wood processing in it since I'm kinda missing ways to process raw wood beyond making wooden boards and resin out of it (using Bob's Greenhouse).

I probably could find out the answers to my questions myself, but recipes are often so complicated that this can take a long time - finding the most efficient recipes requires some time, which makes Angel's so interesting to play.

[jcranmer]

Outside of arboretums for trees, bioprocessing is unfortunately waaaay underpowered for making anything useful, and even arboretums pale in comparison to Bob's greenhouses.

To put it in perspective, if you look at tier-1 plastic production, you can turn 1 belt of coal into 1 belt of plastic (via coal->CO₂->CH₃OH) and ~15 crackers in the key step, or ~15,000% pumpjacks into plastic via naptha (about ~30 crackers in that key step), or 2.5 belts of wood to plastic (via cellulose fiber -> methanol, only need 133 liquifiers and 65 arboretums). Or you could use 6.2 belts of one of the swamp seeds, with 165 farms, 63 arboretums, and another 100 or so other processing buildings. If your heart is set on algae, that's 20 belts of algae, coming from 177 algae farms eating up 30MW of power--plus the 5 belts of crushed stone you need, and the 200 liquifiers eating up another 30MW of power. And you still need that 1 belt of coal to make CO₂.

The problem with algae farms in particular is you have large buildings, with poor crafting speed and few opportunities for module expansion, combined with long crafting times and large numbers of intermediate products that ultimately boil down to very few products. You get 40 algae from one cycle in the algae farm, which ultimately turns into 2 plastic over 20 seconds. Compare this to vanilla, where 1 coal becomes 2 plastic in 1 second. Ultimately, the ratios themselves aren't too bad, but the cycle times are just so long that it makes the entire process rather pointless. In Seablock, your first priority after getting the slag processing to make electronic circuits is converting algae farms to arboretums to get decent coal-equivalent production (since that's your only effective source of power).

I'm planning on modding this locally to fix farming to be more powerful (probably adding 10× factors in strategic places), since I like the entire concept, particularly the seed generator limiting aspects. I'm also adding in the two changes from seablock I like most: moving slag slurry to generate the 6 ores instead of the individual bob's ores, and replacing the insulated wire requirements of red/green wire with copper cable.

[neoc]

Thanks for the insights. From occasionally watching Zisteau I thought Bio Processing is pretty powerful since he got pretty far in his Seablock series. So adding it to my game won't overshadow ore processing I guess.

Do I need the trees and maybe other stuff generated by Bio Processing as resources on the map? Or are they just a gimmick like rocks?

[jcranmer]

Seablock has some customizations to Angel's, the big ones being the shift of sludge from generating bob's ores to generating angel's ores, the replacement of coal and coke with charcoal (produced via cellulose fiber -> wood bricks -> charcoal), and adding the blue algae to oil chain. I've not seen any Seablock series that lasted long enough to reach oil processing, but I have to imagine that the only effective way to do oil is via the blue algae chain rather than farming, since the results from farming are just so few.

Bioprocessing basically has three different means of production, which are largely orthogonal to each other: there's algae farming, there's arboretums, and there's farming. Algae farms don't require the new trees Angel added, but they don't add much value (except for alien artifacts, for which they're the only chain). Arboretums require seed generators to get the tree seeds, and seed generators require the special trees you can only find on the map. Regular farming requires special seeds, and these seeds require using seed extractors on the special gardens you can find on the map, but once you get a handful of them, it's possible to convert the results back into seeds so you only need a few to start. (I may have mixed up the trees versus the gardens, but they're both special trees you come across on the map).

[Light]

Outside of arboretums for trees, bioprocessing is unfortunately waaaay underpowered for making anything useful, and even arboretums pale in comparison to Bob's greenhouses.

To be fair, Bob's greenhouses are absurdly overpowered to the point it breaks the game. The arboretums are much better balanced and complements the Angel's experience as it should.

Is Bio Processing overpowered compared to the rest of Angel's which rely heavily on ore processing? I know you can always make stuff out of plain water, but I guess this gets a lot easier with algae. Does Bio Processing add interesting non-overpowered stuff which can be useful on a normal map?

Bioprocessing is a bit underwhelming for sure, and while Angel assured us that some tweaking would be done, it has been a considerable amount of time since then. So on that note, anything beyond the basics isn't worthwhile, despite the coolness of renewable goods.

However, if you play a VERY restricted resource map as I do, then bioprocessing has its appeal in some aspects for its renewable methods. It would most certainly be nice if you could obtain 35-50% of the yield of typical non-renewable processes to make it a wonderful supplementary addition to your primary factory line, but since it's more like 2% outside of a massive power hungry setup, you'll sadly not really bother with it.

With all that said, the algae farms do have their uses if you're willing to build dedicated large setups. They've been instrumental in some sections of my factory for several things, but speed modules are an absolute requirement beforehand given their lengthy recipes.

[neoc]

I added Bio Processing to my map now and really like it as far as I can tell at this point. Green algae are useful in methanol / carbon dioxide crafting since the chemical processes with gas / coal etc. usually have more byproducts - maybe these recipes are a bit too easy. Brown algae can be used for sodium carbonate which can be processed to glass, seems easier than the other methods. I did some seed processing but not to the point where I got something useful out of it. I just use surface.create_entity to get the gardens on my already generated map. Don't see the point of exploring anyway as long as maps are basically always the same with little variations.

[Arch666Angel]

Still adding stuff, that's the current state:

[neoc]

Still adding stuff, that's the current state:
...

Can't wait for it )

The alien artifact stuff seems incomplete, is that why the mod is tagged as alpha? Or did this just get obsolete with vanilla and Bob's colored artifacts?

[Arch666Angel]

Still adding stuff, that's the current state:
...

Can't wait for it )

The alien artifact stuff seems incomplete, is that why the mod is tagged as alpha? Or did this just get obsolete with vanilla and Bob's colored artifacts?

Alpha usually means that it is playable, but that I'm still adding stuff to it and things might change considerably between versions. Beta usually means I wont add more major features but that recipes and tech are going to be changed for balancing still.
Concerning artifacts: I dont plan to re-add them, like bob does it. I will keep the artifact production chain if bob is present but they wont be used in my recipe chains.