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HF, Jivolite mining

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:31 pm
by Yakoot
What is the easiest way to create HF now? I read some discussions and I am confused.
Now my miners works without HF, but it's not for long, so I began to study the productivity modules to reduce the consumption of HF. And I still not sure, how will I produce HF - from jivolite ore, from thermal water, from nodule

Re: HF, Jivolite mining

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:08 pm
by septemberWaves
There are two ways to produce hydrofluoric acid. All of the information here assumes you're using the latest versions of Angel's mods (older versions may not include all of these processes).

The first method uses fluorite ore. Fluorite ore is obtained from fluoric waste water, which is a byproduct of jivolite refining (though you're unlikely to get much of a return from that method, especially if you want to further process the jivolite ore which requires more hydrofluoric acid). Fluorite ore can also be obtained by crystallizing mineral sludge to uranium ore and fluorite ore. Alternatively, fluorite ore can be created directly using stiratite chunks, rubyte chunks, and mineral catalysts (this is my preferred method).

The other method to obtain hydrofluoric acid is as a byproduct of petrochemical refining. Hydrofluoric acid is one of the products of the catalytic cracking of acid gas. Acid gas comes from refining of raw gas. Raw gas is the primary product of natural gas, and is a secondary product of multi-phase oil.

Personally I've tended towards focusing on the acid gas method for my bulk production of hydrofluoric acid. That said, depending on how much jivolite you use (and also on what process you use for tungsten refining, which is also a HF consumer) and how deep you delve into petrochemistry, the stiratite+rubyte+catalyst method might end up becoming far more important (it's a newer method that I'm not used to using yet).

Re: HF, Jivolite mining

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:46 pm
by Rockets
Without modules, fluorite ore from waste water doesn't actually cover your mining costs from infinite ore mining. Each ore costs 10 acid and produces 25 waste water, which turns into 2.5 acid. So it lets you recover 1/4 of your initial acid investment, but that's all. Also, of course, any crushed ore that you use directly without hydro refining it first (eg. for direct iron sorting) gives you no acid back at all.

That said, you can build up a big backlog from the initial finite ore from each ore patch. You get +1/4 finite yield from each ore patch by refining all the ore and cycling back the acid to mine out some of the infinite ore, then another 1/16 from recycling the waste from that ore, etc etc until in the end you run out of acid and get +1/3 yield total. It certainly helps a lot when you're getting started initially, but you will need another source in the long term unless you want to keep exploring and claiming new ore patches.

For the other options, acid gas from petrochem will cover most of your needs as a byproduct of all the plastic you'll be making anyway. It also gives you the sulfuric acid you'll be needing in bulk, so it's a really valuable production chain that's worth setting up asap once you have the research for it. The only downside is that, depending on your factory's relative consumption of plastic vs iron, sometimes your gas refineries can backlog and you won't get the acid byproducts you need for your jivolite mining. So it's worth setting up one of the two sludge options as a fallback.

Crystallizing fluorite directly from sludge is the simplest route, but it costs 250 sludge per 1 fluorite, with 0.25 uranium byproduct -- this is really only efficient once you have access to thermal water, otherwise each 1 fluorite costs 1 coal for the filter, and and some combination of 25 slag or 125 crushed stone + 22.5 sulfuric acid, or 50 crushed + 62.5 geodes + 125 sulfuric acid, even after recycling your sulfuric waste. It's a reasonable way to void your surplus rocks, but it's hardly an efficient pathway for primary fluorite production. It does become a lot more viable once you have blue research and the construction materials to get thermal water, though.

Catalytic sorting is much more efficient on sludge usage, consuming only 12.5 sludge per ore. That's comparable to the stone+slag+geode byproducts you'll get from processing your jivolite to output ores in the first place, so it's actually pretty sustainable as a primary fluorite source. The problem is it also costs you 1 each of rubyte and stiratite, so in the end you're spending 2 ores (and the 20 sulfuric/nitric acid to mine them up) to get 1 jivolite, so it's effectively penalizing your mines down to only 1/3 productivity. It's a decent fallback when your gas refineries are clogged, and if you aren't using the petrochem mod it's really the only way to get long-term infinite jivolite before you open up blue research for thermal water.