Factorio Forums

Hey,

first off, thanks for doing and sharing your mods. Just a few hours of playing, and it's already apparent that there has been a lot of effort that went into it, even though I'm only using "infinite ores" and "refining".

That said, I seems to me that the balancing for "Vanilla"-style copper/iron-only processing, as opposed to say, processing with bobs ores, is a bit... off. Could be that I'm missing something, or that it is just actually meant to do that, but even with only flotation cells, the whole ore processing of just saphirite alone is like 50-60% of my base, and I still don't have enough iron ore to fill up a single, regular transport belt, which of course isn't enough to actually supply the 20-30% of my base that is factory (the rest is just a 30MW coal power plant).

Just skimming through the forum here makes it seem that using this mod for "Vanilla"-style copper/iron ores is not the way it's meant to be played, and that actually using bobs ore would actually make the whole process easier and more compact?

As it stands, the bobs ore process goes: Mine Ore->Crush Ore->Float Ore->Leach Ore->Refine Ore->Sort Ore->Filter outputs->you now have a smeltable product.
Where as the "Vanilla"-style process goes: Mine Ore->Crush Ore->Float Ore->Leach Ore->Refine Ore->Sort Ore->Filter outputs->potentially Float every single type out of 3 to 6 Outputs again->potentially Leach every single type out of 3 to 6 Outputs again->potentially Refine every single type out of 3 to 6 Outputs again->Sort every single type out of 3 to 6 Outputs again using 3 to 6 times as many Sorting Facilities because of that->you finally have a smeltable product.

It just seems excessive to me, especially since bobs mods (which supposedly have the more intricate processes) get half as complex an ore refinement process with this mod.

I really like the concept of this mod, I just can't wrap my head around the idea of having this "second round" of refinement only because I'm a "Vanilla scrub", whereas "proper bobs pros" get their ores directly. Actually, it's not the idea of that second round, specifically, but the massive size increase due to needing more than twice as many sorters.

Can't we just... I dunno... make it so that, instead of having to build a sorter for every single type of copper/iron crush/chunk/whatever, we feed those things directly into our furnaces, turning a "feed 10 chunks-receive 8 ores" sorting process into an "feed 1 chunk-probability 0.8 for 1 plate" smelting process? That way, we don't need the sorters that we didn't need with bobs ores, either, and we can leave bobs-style complexity to the pros with the mods of bob, while still providing a clear incentive for the more involved "second round" processes.

Am I missing some interaction with the other mods of Angel, or some balancing aspect, or am I just a vanilla-style scrub that needs to be punished for the inadequacy of not having installed bobs mods (I'm not actually mad, just a little "tounge-in-cheek", I think it's called)?

One inconsistency as a complete side note (Emphasis in case you didn't want the wall-o-text): Flotation cells require especially purified water, and produce waste water, as a part of what seems as the integration of the water treatment stuff, but the recipies for crushed iron/copper still require only regular water, producing no waste.

Thanks for reading, and for the (certainly enlightning) response!

if you're playing with it in vanilla, you can pretty much get away with just crushing and smelting, skipping the sorting process entirely unless you want slag to use as a sulfur source, or want the slightly increased efficiency. Note that each additional step adds less and less efficiency.

Oh, and you can also just mix, say, crushed saphirite and crotinium to get pure iron ore out of a sorting machine with perfect efficiency and only a few steps.

I could get away with just crushing and smelting, but at that point, why install the mod in the first place? I mean, that would leave 4 out of 6 ores unused and unusable.
Again, I don't have a "problem" with the sorting, my point's the second round of sorting that makes the whole shebang ~2-3 times as big as a bobs-ore related setup.

I'm also sure crotinnium is already just pure iron, basically, and that the recipe you're talking about has been commented out (yes, I've sifted through the files to get my number-crunching started )

The vanilla version is more than a bit flawed and I don't really improving it, since the focus is on bobs and my own take on an overhaul. I stated several times that I'm myself not very happy with how the vanilla version works, although some people still seem to enjoy playing it. If asked for such a mod I would rather recommend to try Hard Crafting by Judos, since the system in there is much more aligned to how vanilla works. Since I'm rewriting parts of the refining mod for 0.15 anyway, I'm probably going to remove the vanilla functionality all together and then ask for ideas or if someone wants to try that I add someone else take.

My feeling is that there is too much repetition of processes which is boring, chains are too long and also don't have much of an incentive to go through, what's +1/10 more yield if you can just mine more ore? I would like it to be more of what the bobs one does, that you have choices to combine stuff for different gains and outcomes.

Well, vanilla support's dead now, though the description on the mod portal still claims support for vanilla ores, btw.

Arch666Angel wrote:The vanilla version is more than a bit flawed and I don't really improving it, since the focus is on bobs and my own take on an overhaul. I stated several times that I'm myself not very happy with how the vanilla version works, although some people still seem to enjoy playing it. If asked for such a mod I would rather recommend to try Hard Crafting by Judos, since the system in there is much more aligned to how vanilla works. Since I'm rewriting parts of the refining mod for 0.15 anyway, I'm probably going to remove the vanilla functionality all together[...]

Well, that's kind of a shame, 'cause the mod and its chains are interesting, more so than Hard Crafting imho. There is also something to be said about keeping things in consisely defined modules, where as Hard Crafting piles a couple of otherwise unrelated changes into a single mod, which is always bad for compatibility. I guess thats a leftover habitus from Oblivion/Skyrim modding - but Hard Crafting is full of what I consider "dirty edits", so using it is not an option.

Arch666Angel wrote:My feeling is that there is too much repetition of processes which is boring, chains are too long and also don't have much of an incentive to go through, what's +1/10 more yield if you can just mine more ore? I would like it to be more of what the bobs one does, that you have choices to combine stuff for different gains and outcomes.

Allright, I'll say this in jest, but...
"I'll make it so that you'll need another round of sorting and preprocessing that you wouldn't need with bobs instead of giving you ores right from the first sorting like as with bobs ores... oh look, now the chain's too long and the processes are repetitious."
I mean, come on, dude

Also, to be fair, there isn't much to choose from in vanilla, as far as resources go. That's the main thing of being vanilla. The only gains and outcomes you could feasably get are iron, copper, coal, stone, and maybe oil products. Thus, unless you want to "open the can" and make a recipe to turn ores into plastic bars/sulfur/explosives, the only areas to "play with" are convinience, speed, and efficiency, imho - that is to say, increases in yield, products that smelt faster, "special" ore crushes that are directly made into steel etc.

Arch666Angel wrote:[...]and then ask for ideas or if someone wants to try that I add someone else take.

'S that a dare? 'Cause I might go and learn some modding-fu if it is.

Steel definitely needs to include coal in the recipe.

I do like the idea of mining yielding byproducts necessary for petrochem.

Frankly, I hadn't even considered Angels Smelting/Petrochem at that point, but if it were to "combine" properly... that'd be excellent.

For the "steel ore", it might simply be yielded by an ore that also returns traces of coal, since again, there aren't that many resources to choose from in Vanilla, even with some like a "steel ore" (carbon rich iron ore or whatever) added.

Hey,
During some time I have been looking for an answer can I use Angel's mods as a shiny addition and as the main overhaul for new .15 game because Bob's mods is not an option for me for many reasons.

Is it true that Angel's mods are a just extension to Bob's?
Can I use their parts such as the logistics with awesome trains in standalone?
Thanks

As of today you can use angelsinfiniteores, angelsrefining and angelspetrochem in a vanilla game. The other mods will probably follow this example.

\o/

Arch666Angel wrote:As of today you can use angelsinfiniteores, angelsrefining and angelspetrochem in a vanilla game. The other mods will probably follow this example.

Sorry for the late reply! Thanks for this answer!

I just try to run your mods with bobs but without Bobs Electronics and have the following error:

Failed to load mods: Error in AssignID, item with name 'basic-circuit-board' does not exist.
source: ore-sorting-facility (recipe)
mods to be disabled: angelsrefining

This is by design?
Should I use refining-override-vanilla or refining-override-angels?

Thanks,
Alex