Development and Discussion

Infinite Ores, Refining, Ore Processing ...

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Rue99
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Rue99 »

Afternoon all. I don't know if the team is interested in minor requests of this nature...but I'd love to see the heavy barreling pump in a mod all of its own - I play all manner of mod packs, not all of which are compatible with Angels, and I've not found anything remotely as aesthetically appealing!

In any event, it's good to see continuing development - I've had many hours of pleasure playing AB, and doubtless I'll get around to playing pure Angels at some point (possibly sooner rather than later if this lockdown continues!).

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by DJAS7 »

When I update angel ’s mod, https://ibb.co/pfGD23K appears. In the end I found that it was bobrevamp_0.18.1 conflict with angelsrefining_0.11.9.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by danyax »

I wonder why modules research (lvl 1-8) always require basic circuit boards? I think to make modules progression more meaningful tiers 3-5 and 6-8 should use logic and processor boards. It would also perfectly match with B&A play, where new type of crystals are added - splinters/shards/crystal. Now once you set up massive splinter production (quite complex chain), you are god to go for all modules research till level 8. If above ideal is implemented, it would require also massive production of shards and crystals.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Maric »

Just tried to play a save where i had a huge self sustaining thing with acres and acres and acres of greenhouses going on. The new sawblades thing completely wrecks that. Soooo i will not be using angels bio stuff anymore ... any one know of a mod where i can have a big investment of space and materials to get a low but steady stream of energy out that does not consume finite ressources?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by pezzawinkle »

danyax wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:40 pm
I wonder why modules research (lvl 1-8) always require basic circuit boards? I think to make modules progression more meaningful tiers 3-5 and 6-8 should use logic and processor boards. It would also perfectly match with B&A play, where new type of crystals are added - splinters/shards/crystal. Now once you set up massive splinter production (quite complex chain), you are god to go for all modules research till level 8. If above ideal is implemented, it would require also massive production of shards and crystals.
This sounds like you have bobs modules installed without bobs electronics.
The recipes changes are direct ingredient replacements not custom jobs.
While it may be nice to update the recipes to be a bit more nuanced, that is not a high priority at this time.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Wildejackson »

I know this is really nit-picky but can the "transistor" component from industries please be renamed to a capacitor? I can ignore that you cant make transistors from just wire and iron plates, but a component with ONLY TWO LEGS?? Insanity //rant-over

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by danyax »

pezzawinkle wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:58 am
danyax wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:40 pm
I wonder why modules research (lvl 1-8) always require basic circuit boards? I think to make modules progression more meaningful tiers 3-5 and 6-8 should use logic and processor boards. It would also perfectly match with B&A play, where new type of crystals are added - splinters/shards/crystal. Now once you set up massive splinter production (quite complex chain), you are god to go for all modules research till level 8. If above ideal is implemented, it would require also massive production of shards and crystals.
This sounds like you have bobs modules installed without bobs electronics.
The recipes changes are direct ingredient replacements not custom jobs.
While it may be nice to update the recipes to be a bit more nuanced, that is not a high priority at this time.
I play with full Bob and Angel set.
Last edited by danyax on Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

live22morrow
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by live22morrow »

danyax wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:40 pm
I wonder why modules research (lvl 1-8) always require basic circuit boards? I think to make modules progression more meaningful tiers 3-5 and 6-8 should use logic and processor boards. It would also perfectly match with B&A play, where new type of crystals are added - splinters/shards/crystal. Now once you set up massive splinter production (quite complex chain), you are god to go for all modules research till level 8. If above ideal is implemented, it would require also massive production of shards and crystals.
The boards themselves require the components. T1-2 require splinters (circuit board), T3-5 require shards (logic board), and T6-8 require crystals (processor board). Unless you're talking about the actual tech research which only requires the circuit boards, but that's more likely so that the module lab doesn't need to have 17 different slots.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by danyax »

live22morrow wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:13 am
danyax wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:40 pm
I wonder why modules research (lvl 1-8) always require basic circuit boards? I think to make modules progression more meaningful tiers 3-5 and 6-8 should use logic and processor boards. It would also perfectly match with B&A play, where new type of crystals are added - splinters/shards/crystal. Now once you set up massive splinter production (quite complex chain), you are god to go for all modules research till level 8. If above ideal is implemented, it would require also massive production of shards and crystals.
The boards themselves require the components. T1-2 require splinters (circuit board), T3-5 require shards (logic board), and T6-8 require crystals (processor board). Unless you're talking about the actual tech research which only requires the circuit boards, but that's more likely so that the module lab doesn't need to have 17 different slots.
I am talking exactly about tech research which only requires the circuit boards. Research is the only thing that requires massive builds if you play on high tech multiplier. Module production itself has very limited consumption of shards and crystals.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

Holly Molly!

A new update!

And not just that, but Angel's Industries!

Started a new map and will be definitely launching a rocket or two.

Do you want feedback/observations based on my play-testing? :)

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Coffee Daemon »

So perhaps I'm being dumb but I just cant find a way of getting rid of hydrogen. I've just gotten up to steel on an BA playthrough. For steel I need oxygen and water separation seems to be the way to go, except I cant even void hydrogen without a flare stack? And I just cant see a use for it either at this early stage.

EDIT: Turns out fluid boilers can also burn Hydrogen. I hope this is intentional.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by cdowns59 »

I'm very much enjoying the BA suite in 0.18, as I did in previous versions (I think I'm on about 1300 hours of BA), and I've got a couple of suggestions for features that could be added or changed within Bio Processing for realism or balance if you think they would be of use.

I've noticed that Bob's modules now require biter crystals which has pushed me towards doing a lot of bioprocessing stuff that I previously hadn't considered (namely the animal processing, which itself requires specific crops to be grown). This has been good. Needing to grow multiple crops (and the fact that the world is having to do some bioprocessing of our own as we try to find ways to get rid of grass cuttings during lockdown) got me thinking though.

The current compost recipe takes any single bio item, be it wood, algae, a crop, etc. Real life composting doesn't work like that - you need a mix of green waste and brown waste. So perhaps:
  • the original composting recipes could be nerfed to be low efficiency, probabilistic recipes ("mulching").
  • advanced, far more efficient composting recipes added which take multiple inputs, perhaps via an intermediate step to form green and brown waste to reduce the combinations of compost recipes.
Doing this would encourage players to explore the range of farming options rather than on just a few.

I found that waiting for desert gardens to produce an extra desert garden in 5% of cases (for seeds for the nut-producing crop with 5% probability for the blazing puffer breeding) was a very slow process (I only had two desert gardens within a large area of my spawn compared to dozens of temperate gardens) and it seems weird that only fertiliser is needed to do this (whereas sand and saline are also needed to grow the individual crops). I don't think the alien plant life samples are used beyond a handful of research technologies and construction of advanced farms, but large amounts of gardens are useful for garden mutations (I can't see any swamp gardens within a large area of my spawn), so perhaps:
  • boost the output of the desert gardening but also require a substrate and water (and same for the other gardens too)
  • allow gardens to also be made from the constituent crops plus a substrate - this is where the seeds come from initially, and prevents a huge number of mostly unusuable alien plant life samples being stockpiled while gathering gardens for mutations.
  • and/or add another use of alien plant life samples (e.g. mutations, breeding)
Thanks

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

So which is the intended way to get concrete/reinforced concrete?

There is the vanilla/Bob way and the Angel way based on molted concrete.

Are they meant to coexist and be up to personal choice or is there a "meant to" way to get concrete, like with wood, where the Angel meant to way is to use Bio, but you can "shortcut" it and get Bob's Greenhouse?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by MeduSalem »

Zyrconia wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:41 pm
So which is the intended way to get concrete/reinforced concrete?

There is the vanilla/Bob way and the Angel way based on molted concrete.

Are they meant to coexist and be up to personal choice or is there a "meant to" way to get concrete, like with wood, where the Angel meant to way is to use Bio, but you can "shortcut" it and get Bob's Greenhouse?
Honestly when there is a choice like that (which happens at several places) I usually go with Angel's choice. It kinda is often the better and more interesting/involved choice.

In case of the concrete variants of recipes it seems to be some kind of vanilla override for the sake of probably having concrete tiles early on. Most other concrete products require molten concrete anyway.

Inside of Angel's there is usually a progression path anyway... and the icons with I, II, III, IV in the top left corner, etc usually tell you which one is the best/latest available... and when I need an item I usually look at that icon and then go back from there to establish all necessary ingredients.


That said I feel you there. Sometimes the left-over vanilla/bob's alternative/legacy recipes can be irritating, especially later when there is a ton of recipes in every tab.

It is vanilla and bob's that kinda adds a lot of mess. Nothing against the dev's or bobingabout but it is true somehow. Angel's Mods are a lot more organized and cleaner in structure. :lol:

It is also obvious that they haven't decided on the fate of some legacy/alternative items from Vanilla/Bob's yet. If they want to replace/hide them entirely or not.

Like for example bob's distillery doesn't even show a single recipe. Could hide the machine entirely if there is no use for it.
Or bob's barreling pumps when Angel's has its own.
Or why they are keeping the vanilla/bob's furnaces when they have a combined 9 different machines in metallurgy smelting & casting that could probably do absolutely everything.
Last edited by MeduSalem on Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

Bob' version has the advantage of allowing you to recycle all your stone bricks, which you have hundreds of thousands by now...

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by MeduSalem »

Zyrconia wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:45 pm
Bob' version has the advantage of allowing you to recycle all your stone bricks, which you have hundreds of thousands by now...
Well for some reason I am almost always out of stone in late game BA. It is like my most hated enemy. I don't know exactly why this happens. Probably I am not using enough ores in late game anymore to create crushed stone because at that point I put heavy use to productivity modules to cut back on CPU and resource demand.

So probably I eventually put an arrow to my own knee when it comes to stone production when doing that... eventually the stone usage of later crafting stages doesn't scale down any further while the resource demand of early crafting stages in the cascade still shrinks... eventually the break-even point is not met anymore and I am at net loss of stone... and there not being a viable way to mass-produce more except with some ugly cheating with water electrolysis to get slag... and Speed module the crap out of it to meet the demand.

That said I recently started over and for the first time I am also using Angel's Industries... and it changed a lot in the science production and necessary resources so I still have to see how it turns out this time.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

MeduSalem wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:49 pm
Zyrconia wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:45 pm
Bob' version has the advantage of allowing you to recycle all your stone bricks, which you have hundreds of thousands by now...
Well for some reason I am almost always out of stone in late game BA. It is like my most hated enemy. I don't know exactly why this happens. Probably I am not using enough ores in late game anymore to create crushed stone because at that point I put heavy use to productivity modules to cut back on CPU and resource demand.

So probably I eventually put an arrow to my own knee when it comes to stone production when doing that... eventually the stone usage of later crafting stages doesn't scale down any further while the resource demand of early crafting stages in the cascade still shrinks... eventually the break-even point is not met anymore and I am at net loss of stone... and there not being a viable way to mass-produce more except with some ugly cheating with water electrolysis to get slag... and Speed module the crap out of it to meet the demand.

That said I recently started over and for the first time I am also using Angel's Industries... and it changed a lot in the science production and necessary resources so I still have to see how it turns out this time.
That method with the Slag is not cheating at all. That's the way to supplement your production if it is not enough.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

So how do you guys produce paper early-ish game (pre blue/orange science)?

In older versions, producing paper was a massive pain in the ass. It wasn't balanced at all IMHO, you needed close to 100 algae farms in "early" game.

Now the balancing for paper is better, not sure if enough, because playing with all of Angel's options is an incredibly slow paced game. 60 hours in and I'm not even considering building orange science because there are many things to fix yet. Maybe at around 70 hours...

Anyway, I have a setup that produces 21 paper/s from 10.5 cellulose pulp. When my base is not idle, my fairly small circuit build eats up 38 paper/s. So I would need to double it, but I'm thinking of making 60 paper/s, 2 red belts.

So I must make my setup 3 times as large.

Or go with paper 2, which if I'm not mistaken or my math is wrong, is incredibly bad.

Paper 2 converts 10.5 cellulose pulp/s into 26 paper, a small jump over 21.

But is also needs 315 chlorine gas and 10.5 sodium hydroxide.

That is 21 electrolyzers producing sodium hydroxide!

21! That means a ridiculously large setup for producing saline water and at my current tech, I can only make it from purified water, purified water that I need to clarify. Saline water is orange science.

And the by-product form this new paper is something I won't need for another 100 hours or more perhaps.

Look, it's been I don't know, 3 years? I think it is about time to have a good method to get a solid amount of paper, I'm thinking 4 blue belts before modules come in.

What do you think is a reasonable build size and balancing to get that?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by MeduSalem »

Zyrconia wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:53 pm
That method with the Slag is not cheating at all. That's the way to supplement your production if it is not enough.
Well true. It is within the possibilities of the mod. :D

But it isn't exactly the fine and clean method either. It surely messes up the production statistics of fluids when there is like this huge Oxygen and Hydrogen production and venting just to get more Slag.

I think there could be an additional recipe somewhere just to get stone in a more reliable way.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

Hmmm, is there no way to get plastic without Bio?

It requires orange science which requires plastic. A loop.

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