Development and Discussion

Infinite Ores, Refining, Ore Processing ...

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Molay
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Molay »

Kingarthur any chance you can make angel compatible with the new uranium-like ore Bob introduced? I.e. preventing it from spawning, allowing it to be refined in some way from the basic saphirite/rubyte/etc... ores? It sticks out like a sore thumb sadly.

Zyrconia
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

Zyrconia wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:11 pm
BlueTemplar wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:59 pm
I've had quite a bit of fun trying to make work the disabled parts of Angel's Industries !
(AFAIK, like for Pyanodon, the idea was to get rid of dependencies on bob's mods entirely, not just for Refining...)
Yeah, don't really want that. While there is a lot of "fluff" in Bob's, I consider the ores, advanced power and the modules a must have for any play-through.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Bob's Electronics. That is the heart and blood of progression in B+A.

Anyway, back on topic.

It may be nostalgia, but I consider the prime B+A experience the one we had in 0.15. That is the one I would like to go back to, only updated.

0.16 was in some areas better, some new features, some better balancing, more options.

0.17 is the one last time I checked that completely broke apart, with things no longer being properly integrated.

What I would like to see is:
- A fully integrated Angel's Refining, supporting all the necessary ores for electronics and science.
- Smelting options for all of them. (this is pretty much done)
- A good balance pass on wooden boards, paper, farming, algae.
- A trimming pass: there are just a bit too any buildings.

With these I feel like Angel's would be up for Factorio version 1.0.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by BlueTemplar »

So, what did you find wrong with 0.16 ?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by ukezi »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:40 pm
So, what did you find wrong with 0.16 ?
Also for 0.17
For me the balancing in Bio is not good at all. Some of the recipes are atrociously slow in comparison (especially the wooden boards), the tiers are not enough better for how complicated they are. Some variants are just plain better then others.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:40 pm
So, what did you find wrong with 0.16 ?
Balancing vs. complexity was in many places seriously off.

Some early game (pre-blue science, which is incredibly "hard" to get in a fully automated and sustainable way, but there are some good temporary shortcuts that will last you hours) was also off.

Sorry, my memory is not good enough to tell of the top of my head what was wrong, but wooden boards, algae (to a higher degree) in general and even iron production on a death world were off.

I'm not saying things were that bad, but sometimes you would end up with a "mini" mega base just to feed solar panels and ammo, where 75% of the megabase was boards related stuff. This is particularly hard to pinpoint since if I remember correctly, 0.16 greatly improved some recipes related to wooden boards while introducing other which were not worth it.

And when it came to farming, we had 3 tech trees, like desert, temperate and something else, and only one was balanced.

The next time I play test, I'm going to build a setup that has 6-10 low tier assemblers, all consuming a constant but relatively low amount of BEBs and I'm 99% sure the setup will be unreasonably large for the wooden boards and this only if you use the best of Bioprocessing, the recipes with the best yield. Compared to the wooden boards, the rest is just fine. But if you go with Bob's Greenhouses, which I like to avoid, since we are playing Angel's after all, getting that wood becomes exponentially easier.

I think I still have a 0.16 install somewhere and can double check my memory vs. existing bases.

And I'm installing 0.17 right now to play test some stuff...

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

Started my playtesting.

First question: with bob's on, what should we do about thorium? I did not play with Thorium before so I'm not sure how big its impact is.

Is it OK if we mine for it instead of refining?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by BlueTemplar »

I didn't get to the point when I can use thorium yet in my 0.16 games. I've enabled it as a ground ore in BobDiggity, but for even more ore variety (as well as sulphur, cobalt, &c.)
Sorry, my memory is not good enough to tell of the top of my head what was wrong, but wooden boards, algae (to a higher degree) in general and even iron production on a death world were off.
I can only think about the sorting trap where basic smelting after sorting is worse than direct smelting.
Maybe this is about angel disabling bob's cheap steel smelting ?
The next time I play test, I'm going to build a setup that has 6-10 low tier assemblers, all consuming a constant but relatively low amount of BEBs and I'm 99% sure the setup will be unreasonably large for the wooden boards and this only if you use the best of Bioprocessing, the recipes with the best yield.
Uh, I have a different experience, in 0.16 trees are IMHO a bit too good compared to farming/paper. (And in Sea Block - which might have different balance though - I got to high tech science powering my whole base on a single tree !)
And when it came to farming, we had 3 tech trees, like desert, temperate and something else, and only one was balanced.
And swamp. I've helmoded them quite a bit, and I don't remember any of them feel completely useless ? (Of course, with so many of them, some are likely to end up better than others !) The biter crystal powder on the other hand...

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by ukezi »

Regarding seablocks, trees were strong in 0.16 but the introduction of the saw blades in 0.17 nerfed that hard enough for power. Now it's only the way to make wooden boards because the algae way is gigantic.

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