Development and Discussion

Infinite Ores, Refining, Ore Processing ...

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Ober3550
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Ober3550 »

orzelek wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:45 pm
Ober3550 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:00 pm
A while ago I requested a setting within Angels Refining to allow for all ore types spawning (bobs and vanilla) and I do appreciate the boolean that was added but its created a headache for Orzelek and I. This is mostly because I have to set this boolean for vanilla generation aswell as Orzelek checking if Angels refining is present and if my mod is present and if my setting is active. And what I've come here to say, is that it'd be easiest to actually add a proper setting within Angels Refining (default false) that does exactly this so that I don't have to be messing with booleans and compatibility. And when it comes to my mod. I can just have it as one of the many settings within the modpack dist on my github.
It would be in Angels infinite ores because thats where the ores are. At least thats how I thought it works :D
The current boolean is read right here. Factorio\mods\angelsrefining_0.10.14\prototypes\generation\angels-override

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Zyrconia »

Hi Angel!

Congratulations on becoming a dad! I wish you all the luck in the world!

As for the state of your mods, I don't know what to say that haven't been said before. No new ideas for now. But multiple of your mods are my favorite ever and they have some fantastic ideas, like infinite ores (integrated with RSO), N-to-1 Refining, pretty much everything in smelting is gold, the parts of Bio that are balanced are interesting to say the least and using your bots can also be be fun as an early game alternative, especially for a green science compact built everything. So the mods must and will live on!

Just for fun, I started today my very first mod ever. It is just for personal use and I will try to balance a bit Angel's+Bob's, trim down the fat and "fix" 1-N refining, making it more to my liking. I'm making it just to learn modding.

Spent about 5 hours today in a spreadsheet only covering Saphirite and Jivolite, sorting tiers 1-4. Then 10 minutes searching though the code and a couple of minutes implementing the spreadsheet.

Now I understand what incredible effort you put into these mods and how time consuming it can be!

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Arch666Angel »

Dune wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:51 pm
Arch666Angel wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:10 pm
Question is how much yield an infinite field should now show, I can set the richness to be multiplied with a factor which will lower the yield it starts of with.
I'd return the question, if the field was just supposed to be infinite, IE never run out but produce as it would if it were regular ore? Then each tile should be 100%. In a new game, the richness setting only sets how much material the tile will have, not how much it produces per cycle of the miner. IE, the higher the richness the longer an ore patch lasts.

This is how I'd set it up, to keep the current behavior and to have vanilla behavior if the user wants it.

First, I'd let the user decide if they want plain infinite, or extra. It could be a field, with a default of 100, for base production percent per tile. Let the value be from 0 to max positive value. A tool tip saying that, "Each increment of 100% is the amount of ore received per cycle of the miner, and any value between 1-99% is a percent chance of an (extra) ore. The amount received is dependent upon which of the possible 25 tiles under the miner is being mined at that moment."

Two, a random field(s) depending on how lua and the gui works for you. To be added to the first, IE 100-500, would add 100-500 random value to each tile of the First field. So if the default was 100, it'd be in essence 200-600. The default for this field might be 0-0, representing vanilla miner behavior.

Angel, will this work?
Working with ores there are only a few things you can tweak with the base game: Size, richness and frequency.
Size and frequency is determined by the noise functions and their inputs, richness partially by the functions peak and also by additional richness factors. With regular ores richness just determines how many miner cycles are in one tile of ore. Internally infinites also have a kind of cycles limit, cause you set values for min and normal, where normal is 100%, min the lowest yield it drops to. Before the change a miner could only produce one output per cycle regardless of the yield. Now it behaves more correct in terms to the math: 100% produces one output per cycle, everything above 100% has a chance to produce an additional output, everything below 100% becomes a chance to produce the one output.

The infinite ores mod just works off these principles and the now included ability in vanilla to spawn two resource in the same position using the same noise, where the main resource has a bigger size and the infinite part a smaller size. What I did as change is reduce the richness of all infinites to 0.01 of the original value, which puts infinites close to the spawn (within 5 chunks) to around or below 100%.

Ober3550 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:00 pm
A while ago I requested a setting within Angels Refining to allow for all ore types spawning (bobs and vanilla) and I do appreciate the boolean that was added but its created a headache for Orzelek and I. This is mostly because I have to set this boolean for vanilla generation aswell as Orzelek checking if Angels refining is present and if my mod is present and if my setting is active. And what I've come here to say, is that it'd be easiest to actually add a proper setting within Angels Refining (default false) that does exactly this so that I don't have to be messing with booleans and compatibility. And when it comes to my mod. I can just have it as one of the many settings within the modpack dist on my github.
Regular ores are generated by the refining mod, infinites by the infinite mod, the boolean is inside the refining mod and the infinite mod is listening to that as well. I don't see a big difference there compared to using a setting, the only thing that is different that you could mess up the load order at other places by not setting dependecies.
But there is now a GitHub for the mods, if you have changes well you probably know better how to use the Git than I do :)

https://github.com/Arch666Angel/mods

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Arch666Angel
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Arch666Angel »

Zyrconia wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:47 am
Hi Angel!

Congratulations on becoming a dad! I wish you all the luck in the world!

As for the state of your mods, I don't know what to say that haven't been said before. No new ideas for now. But multiple of your mods are my favorite ever and they have some fantastic ideas, like infinite ores (integrated with RSO), N-to-1 Refining, pretty much everything in smelting is gold, the parts of Bio that are balanced are interesting to say the least and using your bots can also be be fun as an early game alternative, especially for a green science compact built everything. So the mods must and will live on!

Just for fun, I started today my very first mod ever. It is just for personal use and I will try to balance a bit Angel's+Bob's, trim down the fat and "fix" 1-N refining, making it more to my liking. I'm making it just to learn modding.

Spent about 5 hours today in a spreadsheet only covering Saphirite and Jivolite, sorting tiers 1-4. Then 10 minutes searching though the code and a couple of minutes implementing the spreadsheet.

Now I understand what incredible effort you put into these mods and how time consuming it can be!
Thank you, but we are still some month off (start of january), baby production is about halfway finished, no god modules involved here :)

Have fun doing some modding can be a joy and a pain at the same time.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Hadriex »

Hey Angel. Love your work. Just starting to really explore it but I'm afraid something gone terribly wrong with my game file.

All of the oil in the game is multi-phase oil, but the refineries only take 'crude oil'.

I've become very attached to the death world game file I'm playing, running low on coal, and not sure what to do.

If it helps, here's the mess of mods I'm running:

AAI Vehicles: Warden
Afraid of the Dark
Aircraft
Alien Biomes
Angel's Addons - Ore Silos
Angel's Addons - Pressure Tanks
Angel's Addons - Warehouses
Angel's Petro Chemical Provessing
Angel's Refining
Angel's Smelting
Barbed-Wire-Light
Base Mod
Bio Industries
Bob's Adjustable Inserters
Bob's Assembling Machines
Bob's Electronics
Bob's Enemies
Bob's Functions Library Mod
Bob's Greenhouse mod
Bob's Logistics mod
Bob's Metals, Chemicals and Intermediates
Bob's Mining
Bob's Modules
Bob's Ores
Bob's Power
Bob's Revamp Mod
Bob's Tech
Bob's Vehicle Equipment
Bob's Warfare
Cargo Ships
Factorissimo2
Flare Stack
Helicopters
Modular Turrets
Natural Evolution Enemies
Rampant
Reinforced Walls
Robot Army
Squeak Through
Warehousing Mod


-whew- If there's any way I can salvage my game please let me know.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by jodokus31 »

Hadriex wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:23 pm
All of the oil in the game is multi-phase oil, but the refineries only take 'crude oil'.
multi-phase oil needs another processing step before to get crude oil. Check the Gas&Oil seperator machine.
The best is to check FNEI or similar to explore the recipes.

Angel's Petrochem is tough :)

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Hadriex »

Ah thank you so much, now I feel embarrassed for not finding it on my own.

FNEI? Is that another mod? Or some other resource?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by jodokus31 »

Hadriex wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:30 pm
Ah thank you so much, now I feel embarrassed for not finding it on my own.

FNEI? Is that another mod? Or some other resource?
Yes, those are helper mods

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/FNEI
or alternative:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/what-is-i ... y-used-for

And some planner tools (if you want to calculate whole chains)
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/helmod
or alternative:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/factoryplanner

The alternatives are matter of taste, and can be installed side-by-side

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Hadriex »

Thank you very much. I'll give it a try :)

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Mugiwaxar »

Hello,
Can you please add the Hydrogen Gas from Hydrogen Power Systems to your converter valve?
It will be realy usefull :)
And add a fuel_value for hydrogen to burn it with Hydrogen mod will be nice :P

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by loosecannon93 »

So I installed this a few hours into a game where I was just using bob's mods and angel's refining earlier.

After I did so I read on the home page the warning to not do that . . . but well it's too late now, I'm a couple dozen hours in.

Nothing is particularly screwed up, but there are a number of essentially duplicate recipes for this that get replaced by this mod but I had already researched.

Anyone have any ideas on how to fix it to some extent with the console?

I can unresearch the duplicate techs,
(e.g.
/c game.player.force.technologies["sulfur-processing"].researched = false
/c game.player.force.technologies["oil-processing"].researched = false
/c game.player.force.technologies["oil-processing"].researched = false
etc)
but then the old version is still available to research again. Is there a good way to remove it entirely/hide it?

I can probably just live with that and ignore it as is, but figured I'd ask if anyone had maybe tried to do something similar before.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by loosecannon93 »

So running these commands

Code: Select all

/c game.player.force.technologies["sulfur-processing"].researched = false
/c game.player.force.technologies["sulfur-processing"].enabled = false
/c game.player.force.technologies["oil-processing"].researched = false
/c game.player.force.technologies["oil-processing"].enabled = false
/c game.player.force.technologies["nitrogen-processing"].researched = false
/c game.player.force.technologies["nitrogen-processing"].enabled = false
/c game.player.force.technologies["chemical-plant"].researched = false
/c game.player.force.technologies["chemical-plant"].enabled = false

Seems to fix my immediate issue with some oil processing stuff.

I think I still have some other duplicate machines that aren't all that useful but this is less confusing and removed a bunch of the duplicate recipes.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by ShadowGlass »

This should fix everything for you:

Code: Select all

/c for _,player in pairs(game.players) do
   player.force.reset_recipes()
   player.force.reset_technologies()
   player.force.reset_technology_effects()
end

loosecannon93
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by loosecannon93 »

Thanks that was very helpful.

I still needed to disable the specific technologies, or that has no effect though. Figuring out exactly which was kinda challenging. After a bunch of random "well that seems odd" trial and error I figured out something.

What I ended up doing was creating a new file with the same mod set loaded and then running this command in my messed up file and the new file:

Code: Select all

/c for name, tech in pairs(game.player.force.technologies) do; 
  game.write_file( "names_tech_old_busted.txt", name..", enabled=".. tostring(tech.enabled).. "\n", true); 
end
/c for name, tech in pairs(game.player.force.technologies) do; 
  game.write_file( "names_tech_fresh.txt", name..", enabled=".. tostring(tech.enabled).. "\n", true); 
end
Then in the `script_output` directory in bash I ran:

Code: Select all

$ sort names_tech_old_busted.txt > sorted_tech_old_busted.txt
$ sort names_tech_fresh.txt > sorted_tech_fresh.txt
$ diff sorted_tech_old_busted.txt sorted_tech_fresh.txt | grep ">.*enabled=false" | awk '{print $2}' 
air-compressor-1,
aluminium-processing,
gold-processing,
invar-processing,
nickel-processing,
nitrogen-processing,
oil-processing,
solid-fuel,
sulfur-processing,
void-fluid,
Then I was able to run this on my broken save

Code: Select all

/c for _,player in pairs(game.players) do
  for _,tech in pairs({
    "air-compressor-1",
    "aluminium-processing",
    "gold-processing",
    "invar-processing",
    "nickel-processing",
    "nitrogen-processing",
    "oil-processing",
    "solid-fuel",
    "sulfur-processing",
    "void-fluid",
  }) do
      player.force.technologies[tech].researched = false
  end
  player.force.reset_recipes()
  player.force.reset_technologies()
  player.force.reset_technology_effects()
end
Which seems to have removed most of the weird recipes and research I had, and I confirmed that the list of enabled technologies is the same as in a fresh file now.

Doing this caused a number of desyncs with my server, but saving and reloading on the server seemed to mitigate that.

Some things occasionally leave me confused, like why I have all these research trees for "water bore" and "distillery", multiple electrolysis machines, but the bob's one seems useless etc, coal liquifaction research exists, but this all appears true on a fresh save file too, so unclear, I may have something else wrong too, I've just kinda ignored them for now.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by RenewU »

Hi Angel, love you mods to death!

However... The last step of your Ore Refining to "Purified" ore stands out like a thorn to me. All other refining steps are really cool and have some individual variation to each resource, but the purification is just a fancy furnace right now.

Are there any plans to add some complexity here?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by evandy »

Are there any major reasons to use barreling instead of fluid transfer via tanks, fluid wagons, etc? Does it help you get around late game pipe throughout problems or something like that?

Starting a seablock run and didn’t use barreling last time either... not sure quite why we would absolutely want it.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by jodokus31 »

evandy wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:19 pm
Are there any major reasons to use barreling instead of fluid transfer via tanks, fluid wagons, etc? Does it help you get around late game pipe throughout problems or something like that?

Starting a seablock run and didn’t use barreling last time either... not sure quite why we would absolutely want it.
I use barrels with LTN mixed cargo deliveries, so that I don't need a dedicated station for each fluid. This is very convenient.
However, there's an initial barrier to overcome: Handling empty barrels, which can end really bad :D
Regarding throughput, i would think that fluid wagons are better, but really, i don't know.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Trebor »

jodokus31 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:16 pm
However, there's an initial barrier to overcome: Handling empty barrels, which can end really bad :D
Oh yes, I’ve done that so many times. (I’m still using barrels though.)

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by coderpatsy »

About the only time I've used barrels is AngelBobs sulfuric acid, because it's so commonly used. I made a belt loop, acid barrels going out and splitting off to barrel machines, and a return line for empties right next to it. I don't know if I would have had throughput issues just using pipes, and I didn't want to find out.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by ukezi »

Fluid throughput isn't really much of a problem anymore, well besides of maybe water for nuclear reactors. As long as you put enough pumps and aren't using many 1000s of fluid/s it will be fine. Even then you can still put down two pipes.

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