Development and Discussion

[foodfactorio]

It's very frustrating not chose the fluid input and output in installations.

hi thales this may help you?
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/GDIW

[foodfactorio]

quotes.... what to do with trees

hi mexmer, for the mysterious tree, i think it is just a case of the mod still being in development / alpha.
im guessing that the initial plan is to have 3 trees, (for 3 different arboretums) of which 2 are only available so far. (1 for bioPlastic, 1 for bioResin, and possibly bioRubber?)

if you have any other trees and are not sure what to do with them, i posted a small footprint blueprint (with 6 seed extractors feeding into Advanced Seed Extractions) below, where it keeps the rather rare farming trees, and only passes a spare tree to the next seed extractor, IF 2 successful production cycles take place). This way, you dont lose your 1st tree, and only spare ones get turned into seeds for the Bio Farms.
viewtopic.php?f=185&t=19652&start=2480#p346686

i still havent found out what the difference is between a basic Farm, and an Upgraded Farm, but maybe those are still being developed too.
i just hope my farming area still works after any changes lol

[arbarbonif]

i still havent found out what the difference is between a basic Farm, and an Upgraded Farm, but maybe those are still being developed too.
i just hope my farming area still works after any changes lol

Upgraded farms are faster but can only plant the one class of seeds.

[foodfactorio]

about N to 1 and 1 to N

only angel will know what the plans are, but I think that it could be something like this... (and i am having fun this way currently in my games):

- Having multiple ores to find, work with and produce.
- starting out with a smaller base at the start, (not building a huge mega base from step 1)
- using direct crushing/smelting
- getting some manual research and then doing 1 to many (1 to n) refining and sorting
- making chunks (chunks are always great, especially chocolate chunks in cookies)
- adjusting your base to cater for chunk processing (and realising you can get more stuff from it)
- making & sorting crystals
- making and sorting pured versions.

Then, once you have just 1 Ore Processing Facility (for each of the 4 main ores),
you can then start improving in stages, with research, or Ingot / Molten recipes,
and get a sense of satisfaction now that some part of resources production (or item production) has just become a bit more efficient.

but then, after getting some more tech, you can then actually create the proper (more efficient way that a player is happy with) in another, clearer area, which then becomes the main mega base type of area. You can still keep the existing starting area Processing Facilities, to give you several different ores,, like lead and silicon, (which are also used to improve iron and steel), but you can also scale them back, so that they consume, and produce less raw ore over time, so that most of it diverts to your main areas.

I think it is cool and fun, that we can progress and improve the base over time, because it always feels like there is something cool to still unlock, or in my case, there is always a process that can be improved and im usually unlocking more tech research then i can keep up with

This way, you can use lots of tech to utilise a good part of the (many ores from 1 to N) in the future, that admittedly do get stored, but that is all part of the player's balancing act, how to store, and how to deal with the storage and logistical aspects, but then then player can utilise Nto1 (many to 1) ore production, to give themselves a boost to what they need the most at that time, (while also using up some of that stock).... but because some of the ingredients are far away or rarer (like jivilite and crotinium), the player will need to plan out ways of getting and finding more, or switching to using sludges etc.

so to summarise, i think it is fun to progress up from the basic setup, and then improve your base and productivities etc, and probably more of a challenge for those who just want to build a mega base from the start. (not trying to put you in any category here my friend) just that when i started the game, i just happily put down 1 of each building as i unlocked it, and built up my base slowly, instead of using up all my iron just to build 50 smelters that i didnt have electricy or enough coal to feed etc) , and it is a lot of fun building up the base slowly and scaling up some areas......

the only problems i often run into, are these:
- not enough inventory in my backpack (but with multiple AngelBobYuoki mods, there are often lots i need to carry)
- occasional outage of energy (still trying to figure out how steam engines and nuclear work lol)
- hoarding too much nitrogen and hydrogens (as im storing it for later.... hopefully it will be used)
- some science pack productions
- and sulfuric acid shortage, but maybe only once a day, and usually related to oxygen production, which halt due to nitrogen or hydrogen storage)

but it is quite fun to run around the base putting down more storage, or troubleshooting and fixing a few production issues from time to time

[foodfactorio]

Upgraded farms are faster but can only plant the one class of seeds.

thank you i had only looked at 1 recipe, and saw that the inputs, outputs, and duration were the same, and didnt notice the crafting speed and lack of all 15 icons lol (i blame the wil wheaton seed) - joke

[Bortos]

Hi there

Just curious about Angels logistics mod, and if it will be maintained? Alternatively if anyone knows of any fixes that can be done locally to get it running.

I personally only use the 2x2 chest from that mod, and use it widely in my circuit network logistics belt base. Any chance of the 2x2's being added to angel's warehouses?

Thanks

[steinio]

Hi there

Just curious about Angels logistics mod, and if it will be maintained? Alternatively if anyone knows of any fixes that can be done locally to get it running.

I personally only use the 2x2 chest from that mod, and use it widely in my circuit network logistics belt base. Any chance of the 2x2's being added to angel's warehouses?

Thanks

Here you can find an update to 0.16. works fine
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/angelslog ... 1024d772e5

[Frost]

Hi there

Just curious about Angels logistics mod, and if it will be maintained? Alternatively if anyone knows of any fixes that can be done locally to get it running.

I personally only use the 2x2 chest from that mod, and use it widely in my circuit network logistics belt base. Any chance of the 2x2's being added to angel's warehouses?

Thanks

Here you can find an update to 0.16. works fine
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/angelslog ... 1024d772e5

YesYesYes... I needed this so badly.

What do I do with the bio-resin and plastic? I can't just stick it into machines needing resin, so what is the trick?

By the way, why the freakin' hell is the pellet press mark II locked behind production science? It does not make any sense whatsoever. Every other building of this chain and tier is unlocked by blue. Can I please get some thoughts on this?

[Termak]

What do I do with the bio-resin and plastic? I can't just stick it into machines needing resin, so what is the trick?

By the way, why the freakin' hell is the pellet press mark II locked behind production science? It does not make any sense whatsoever. Every other building of this chain and tier is unlocked by blue. Can I please get some thoughts on this?

There should be recipes for the bio plastic and resin, you cant just use them as is.
And why is production pack a problem? I mean when you have blue science you should have everything for production science easily too.

[Frost]

What do I do with the bio-resin and plastic? I can't just stick it into machines needing resin, so what is the trick?

By the way, why the freakin' hell is the pellet press mark II locked behind production science? It does not make any sense whatsoever. Every other building of this chain and tier is unlocked by blue. Can I please get some thoughts on this?

There should be recipes for the bio plastic and resin, you cant just use them as is.
And why is production pack a problem? I mean when you have blue science you should have everything for production science easily too.

That is true. But I still have to make it and research the tech for production science. So why do it? It appears each science researches one tier...

[foodfactorio]

hi frost. the BioPlastic needs i think acetone, which can be made from Nutrient Pulp, in one of the Gas Refineries.
if you have the mod "what-is-it-really-used-for" it can show some new tech that might need to be researched.

with just 1 Arboretum of the BioPlastic, and BioResin trees each, it only feeds a bit of extra plastic, but is definitely worth it

[mrvn]

The only thing I'm not sure on with manganese is that it is lopsided: processed manganese requires blue science while processed iron does not, so you can't really use processed iron until blue science or your system will be bottlenecked by excess iron. So using processed iron is a tech exclusively for people who do not use manganese. Or you can with a bit cleverness feed it to steel with low priority. Plus the consumption of sulfuric acid is a bit weird.

You can just mix rank 2 iron smelting with rank 1 manganese by just directing the overflow iron into plain iron smelter.

Or steel smelting, as I am currently doing.

You need to become much more flexible there. As research progresses you get more different recipes for molten iron and molten steel. As useless ores collect from the 1-to-N sorting it becomes practicable to activate one or more of the N-to-1 molten-metal recipes to use up the excess and get more molten metal out of it.

[mrvn]

I did some math for wire coils and found something odd.

There is no material benefit from using copper wire coils or tined wired coils. You get the same amount of wire from it. The only benefit seems to be compaction on the belt, which makes it worth it on its own.

But for solder coils you get twice the yield. Why is that one special?

[BlakeMW]

Is 1 to N sorting any good?

Short answer: no! Not for high demand ores. For low demand ones it is probably good, or at least easy to set up as a temporary setup that will last you to end game and then you tear it up and be done with 1 to N forever.

First let's define the ore need. I'm usually in need of really large amounts of iron early game, but I've seen that not everybody plays like this, so I'll settle on a "very low" iron production: 4 yellow belts, to be updated later to 4 red belts.

My solution to the iron bias is mainly stretching the iron ore, for example if you're using the 2:1 Iron:Copper sorting recipe then you can just not put the copper through ore processing, once you get minecarts this quickly turns it into something more like 3:1.

That by itself isn't enough to solve the iron bias, which is where I bring in manganese. In past versions this involved large batteries of nodule processing to match iron ore with manganese, now it just requires bringing in jivolite from outside the starting area to perform the ferric ore sorting. 1 basic belt of jivolite when combined with the 2 other ores should be enough to produce 4 basic belts of iron plates so it's hardly an ordeal to just belt in the ore rather than bothering with a train.

[credomane]

I did some math for wire coils and found something odd.

There is no material benefit from using copper wire coils or tined wired coils. You get the same amount of wire from it. The only benefit seems to be compaction on the belt, which makes it worth it on its own.

But for solder coils you get twice the yield. Why is that one special?

I've noticed a similar thing with glass. Running through angel's procedures for making glass yields in less glass then direct smelting silicon ore. Mentioned this back in 0.14 Angel's mods but it is still around in 0.16.

Namely the molten glass to glass recipe takes 40x molten glass to make 2x glass. Which ends up being one less plate than direct smelting. You actually don't benefit with more glass until you are making glass mixture with the "advanced glass smelting 3" recipes. Unlike the other angel methods you get just a bit more bang for you buck with the "advanced <whatever> smelting 1" recipes. The "40x molten glass to only produce 2 glass" is just killing the raw output of glass vs direct smelting.

[Frost]

hi frost. the BioPlastic needs i think acetone, which can be made from Nutrient Pulp, in one of the Gas Refineries.
if you have the mod "what-is-it-really-used-for" it can show some new tech that might need to be researched.

with just 1 Arboretum of the BioPlastic, and BioResin trees each, it only feeds a bit of extra plastic, but is definitely worth it

Thanks, I kinda missed this the first time. I think I was searching for bio or plastic in the tech tree. One of these things does NOT show the stuff you are looking for (no, not droids).

I am no for the first time really digging into the new bio chain. It is interesting, although some things appear to be there just to make stuff cumbersome and I am not sure I agree. My main example would be the farms that have 2 types of seed. Is it because of some sort of "realism" or why? Anyways, it is fun having to dig through something new for a change. Thank god there are bots to solve the spaghettiness.

Also, my main issue is not with the chains, but with the darn UI that does not label the outputs...

Thanks Angel!

Edit: Check out the Factorio Item Browser (google it). It is awesome for this type of thing.

[Sauerkraut]

Okay, I have a few small questions regarding various parts of the mods:

• What is the petrochem locomotive good for? It only has more fuel consumption and more HP while having a smaller equipment grid than normal locomotives. And with bobs the normal locomotives have 3 Tiers, making the even better in comparison to the petrochem locomotive
• The petrochem wagons: why are there two ("oil" and "gas") different wagons with the exact same stats. They also seem to be equal to the vanilla fluid tank wagon, which, again, has upgrades with bobs
• When using bobs mods there are two types of electrolysers: bobs and angels. They are used for the same recipes but angels ones have always a better crafting speed. Is there any point in using bobs electrolysers?
• What is the point with all the different silos? One for each kind of raw ore seems kind of useless, why not one for each kind of sorted ore? I imagine that could be at least used in a pre filter inserter 0.15 ore sorting setup (in 0.16 splitters can sort, so no need to wait for filter inserters)
• The different valves. The check valve seems fine, but ignores the fact that we can hook up normal pipes to the network. The non-return valve does the same as bobs valve. The overflow valve seems fine and the converter valve looks like its only of use if angels petrochem is used with an otherwise mod free vanilla mod setup. However, what does the underflow valve even do? It's the only one lacking a description and from some quick testing it behaved just like a normal piece of pipe.
• All of the petrochem tanks seem like power creep to vanilla / bobs tanks. All of them provide more storage per tile than vanilla options and the recipes for the gas and fluid tank seem to be swapped, as the smaller fluid tank almost costs double the resources that the much bigger gas tank costs.
• There are chemical plants and chemical plants in the petrochem section. Two facilities with the same name, same size, same layout and they even use the same recipes. One of them has a higher crafting speed and is therefor objectively better. Is this another bobs vs angels issue?
• Next to the bio-processing tab I have another tab called "Unknown Key: 'item-group-name.bio-processing-alien'" which only has a hand full of [metal]-pastes in it (zinc-paste, gold-paste etc.) that are not used in any other recipe. Is this because bio processing is currently in alpha or have I messed up my mod installation?
• Chrome, manganese and cobalt plate have exactly zero use. Why is there even an option to make these metals to plates? Also, a lot of other metals have only one recipe they are used for (like zinc or electrum), which looks intended, but it still fells kind of weird

[Light]

Okay, I have a few small questions regarding various parts of the mods:

• The different valves. The check valve seems fine, but ignores the fact that we can hook up normal pipes to the network. The non-return valve does the same as bobs valve. The overflow valve seems fine and the converter valve looks like its only of use if angels petrochem is used with an otherwise mod free vanilla mod setup. However, what does the underflow valve even do? It's the only one lacking a description and from some quick testing it behaved just like a normal piece of pipe.

You could never connect a wire to a regular pipe. The check valve is useful for situations where you don't want storage tanks storing lots of fluid but just need measurements of fluid flow rate or type of fluid. The underflow valve is the inverse of the overflow valve in that it flows when the fluid is under 80% and stops otherwise. There are a few instances where this is useful, such as when you need some space in storage units for a bit of overflow from another fluid source.

• Next to the bio-processing tab I have another tab called "Unknown Key: 'item-group-name.bio-processing-alien'" which only has a hand full of [metal]-pastes in it (zinc-paste, gold-paste etc.) that are not used in any other recipe. Is this because bio processing is currently in alpha or have I messed up my mod installation?

They're used for creating alien artifacts, which are used in Bob's warfare for creating various combat technologies. Before 0.15 they were also essential for the creation of science packs in peaceful mode. After 0.15 they used to have a fuel value to act as bio-fuel to make better use of them, but this was since removed. If you don't use Bob's warfare then this tech tree is likely useless for you.

• When using bobs mods there are two types of electrolysers: bobs and angels. They are used for the same recipes but angels ones have always a better crafting speed. Is there any point in using bobs electrolysers?
• What is the point with all the different silos? One for each kind of raw ore seems kind of useless, why not one for each kind of sorted ore? I imagine that could be at least used in a pre filter inserter 0.15 ore sorting setup (in 0.16 splitters can sort, so no need to wait for filter inserters)
• There are chemical plants and chemical plants in the petrochem section. Two facilities with the same name, same size, same layout and they even use the same recipes. One of them has a higher crafting speed and is therefor objectively better. Is this another bobs vs angels issue?
• All of the petrochem tanks seem like power creep to vanilla / bobs tanks. All of them provide more storage per tile than vanilla options and the recipes for the gas and fluid tank seem to be swapped, as the smaller fluid tank almost costs double the resources that the much bigger gas tank costs.
• Chrome, manganese and cobalt plate have exactly zero use. Why is there even an option to make these metals to plates? Also, a lot of other metals have only one recipe they are used for (like zinc or electrum), which looks intended, but it still fells kind of weird

These are all because the mods are under constant development and Angel does this in his spare time. Things aren't finished quickly, some loose ends are left behind, all of which will be dealt with when he has the available time to do them. We've all been patiently waiting for the upcoming updates and their various fixes but there's no ETA on these as of yet.

[jodokus31]

[*] Chrome, manganese and cobalt plate have exactly zero use. Why is there even an option to make these metals to plates? Also, a lot of other metals have only one recipe they are used for (like zinc or electrum), which looks intended, but it still fells kind of weird[/list]

You can take a look to ScienceCostTweaker and CircuitProcessing mod, which actually uses some of the rarely used stuff in mass amounts.
f.e. (the ones i recall atm)
- brass and invar in military science. (which is great for excess zinc and nickel)
- glass in blue science
- aluminium in advanced circuits.
- chrome in advanced processing units (which forces the new road of ferrous ore refining)
- cobalt-steel and electrum in production science.

It also gets alot more demanding and complicated

[*] The different valves. The check valve seems fine, but ignores the fact that we can hook up normal pipes to the network. The non-return valve does the same as bobs valve. The overflow valve seems fine and the converter valve looks like its only of use if angels petrochem is used with an otherwise mod free vanilla mod setup. However, what does the underflow valve even do? It's the only one lacking a description and from some quick testing it behaved just like a normal piece of pipe.

The underflow valve is really usefull.
F.e. if you create sulfur dioxide from lead smelting, you can feed it back to the sulfuric acid facility. But you have to make sure, it is consumed first. So you hook up the the main output for sulfur dioxide from sulfur and oxygen via the underflow valve and it fills the pipe only to 80%. So you have enough space to feed to sulfur dioxide from lead smelting, which is then consumed first.

[Termak]

I did some math for wire coils and found something odd.

There is no material benefit from using copper wire coils or tined wired coils. You get the same amount of wire from it. The only benefit seems to be compaction on the belt, which makes it worth it on its own.

But for solder coils you get twice the yield. Why is that one special?

I have mentioned it earlier, imo its bug.