Development and Discussion

Infinite Ores, Refining, Ore Processing ...

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buggy123
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by buggy123 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:22 am

iamwyza wrote:
buggy123 wrote:
Light wrote:
buggy123 wrote:Also, question: How exactly is steam temperature and power generation related to each other? If i feed low-temp steam into a steam engine, do I get less power? Does it consume more? Is it less efficient? Am I losing power if i premix all the different temperature steams from the cooling towers? And how does this all work with the various tiers of steam engines from bob's mods?
The steam engines have a maximum temperature listed when you mouse over them. If your steam is 150 degrees and the maximum temperature is 300 degrees, then you're only going to receive half of the maximum power production. The amount of steam used is probably going to be higher since the engine can't satisfy demand as well as it would with higher heat steam, which is why you want it as close to the maximum as possible for better efficiency. (This is based on my personal observation)

Bob's steam engines have different maximum temperatures as do the turbines used by reactors. I've also noticed that if the temperature is under 100 degrees then the steam engines refuse to work no matter what, so the 50 degree steam from cooling is only useful for cracking.

Hopefully that answers things well enough, but I'm sure someone with far more time on their hands can answer it better.
Thank you, that explains it well. Also I just checked and the wiki also has all this info, whoops.
Which is problematic because you can't seem to barrel steam by default so moving it around is a pain.
Barrels probably don't retain temperature, so that makes sense.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Sedar » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:02 pm

buggy123 wrote: Barrels probably don't retain temperature, so that makes sense.
50° steam is ok for barrelling with Steam Barreling mod forsteam cracking purpose. Rest of steam good for burning right after making.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by SirBriguy » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:21 pm

Hello Angel, just wanted to say I love the mods, though I still have yet to get to the end of the game with them. ;-)

I was looking at the various wire coil stuff which is nice for compression. I was wondering if it would make sense to add a Solder Coil variant as well?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Sedar » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:59 pm

By the way, I found a very unpleasant feature of the wire coils. The fact is that they can not be unwound in electronic assembly machines. And unwound wires are very inconvenient to transport. I hope this will be fixed. :roll:

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Sedar » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:30 am

Hm, last changes with recepie rate in smelting 0.3.6 a bit strange for me. I play in railvorld, so no marathon mode. And do not see the reason to increase ALL recepies rates in 1.25+. Just downgrade smelting to 0.3.5. Right now i dont see reason for that global downgrade for all my factories. :?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Arch666Angel » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Sedar wrote:Hm, last changes with recepie rate in smelting 0.3.6 a bit strange for me. I play in railvorld, so no marathon mode. And do not see the reason to increase ALL recepies rates in 1.25+. Just downgrade smelting to 0.3.5. Right now i dont see reason for that global downgrade for all my factories. :?
If you set recipes to expensive when you generated the map it will default to the more expensive version there. Also it's not affecting all recipes, recipes with expensive versions are currently: sorting, crystallizing, crushed to stone, plastic bars, resin bars, rubber, oil separation, gas separation, all casting into plates or coil recipes.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Sedar » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:44 pm

Arch666Angel wrote: If you set recipes to expensive when you generated the map it will default to the more expensive version there. Also it's not affecting all recipes, recipes with expensive versions are currently: sorting, crystallizing, crushed to stone, plastic bars, resin bars, rubber, oil separation, gas separation, all casting into plates or coil recipes.
Yes, when I start the map, I set complex recipes. But they are already complex even before this smelting update! Double-complex steel, gears, wires and other basic components. Now this complexity is multiplying by complexity is added by the smelting changes.

This is ok, when you start a new map and you can choose the complexity that ok for you. But when in the middle of the game the complexity multiplies it's a little disappointing.

In any case, I understand your position but right now I not ready for such changes at the current level of development of the main map (the early mid-game). So I remain on the version of smelting to 0.3.5. Closer to the middle of the mid-game, I will be able to resist these sudden changes in smelting and wil try new updates with new nice things.

btw:
Sedar wrote:By the way, I found a very unpleasant feature of the wire coils. The fact is that they can not be unwound in electronic assembly machines. And unwound wires are very inconvenient to transport.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Arch666Angel » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:17 pm

Sedar wrote:
Arch666Angel wrote: If you set recipes to expensive when you generated the map it will default to the more expensive version there. Also it's not affecting all recipes, recipes with expensive versions are currently: sorting, crystallizing, crushed to stone, plastic bars, resin bars, rubber, oil separation, gas separation, all casting into plates or coil recipes.
Yes, when I start the map, I set complex recipes. But they are already complex even before this smelting update! Double-complex steel, gears, wires and other basic components. Now this complexity is multiplying by complexity is added by the smelting changes.

This is ok, when you start a new map and you can choose the complexity that ok for you. But when in the middle of the game the complexity multiplies it's a little disappointing.

In any case, I understand your position but right now I not ready for such changes at the current level of development of the main map (the early mid-game). So I remain on the version of smelting to 0.3.5. Closer to the middle of the mid-game, I will be able to resist these sudden changes in smelting and wil try new updates with new nice things.

btw:
Sedar wrote:By the way, I found a very unpleasant feature of the wire coils. The fact is that they can not be unwound in electronic assembly machines. And unwound wires are very inconvenient to transport.
Well I cannot change your settings sadly, you can only set them in general. So if you set expensive at the start you are stuck with it. Only thing you could try is to edit the settings file in refining to allow for values <1 and then undo the changes with a modifier, but that wont work in all cases, there are examples where the ratio is not increased by exactly 25%.

Edit: Oh and added it :)

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Neemys » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:00 pm

If you set expensive recipe in world settings screen they can be edited during game :

The followings command disable achievement, if you want them not to disable achievement use a mod to execute them.

write the following command to change from expensive to normal recipes :

Code: Select all

/c game.difficulty_settings.recipe_difficulty = 0
Unfortunately it will be applied to ALL mods and not only angels, so if you want only to disable angels expensive recipe you need to edit his mod.

There are similar command for technology difficulty and multiplier.
Want more space restriction ? Or maybe you want to be forced to use train for other thing than ore and oil ? Try Building Platform Mod !

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Sedar » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:45 pm

Neemys wrote:If you set expensive recipe in world settings screen they can be edited during game :

The followings command disable achievement, if you want them not to disable achievement use a mod to execute them.

write the following command to change from expensive to normal recipes :

Code: Select all

/c game.difficulty_settings.recipe_difficulty = 0
Unfortunately it will be applied to ALL mods and not only angels, so if you want only to disable angels expensive recipe you need to edit his mod.

There are similar command for technology difficulty and multiplier.
Thanks for the advice, I will know about this opportunity. But I prefer to upgrade later, with reach later level of technology and with preservation of complexity. :)

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by cpy » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:03 pm

I like that liquid metal have colors now, but is it possible to also have realistic molten metal temperature?
Here's list of them:
Iron 1538°C, Copper 1085°C, Tin 232°C, Lead 327°C, Titanium 1668°C, Aluminium 660°C, Chromium 1907°C, Cobalt 1495°C, Glass SiO2 1723°C,
Gold 1064°C, Silver 962°C, Manganese 1246°C, Nickel 1455°C, Silicon 1414°C, Zinc 420°C - blaze it!,

Bronze 950°C, Brass 920°C, Gunmetal 1000°C,

Electrum ? guess 1020°C, Cobalt Steel ? guess 1500°C,

Tungstic acid 100°C, Tungsten hexafluoride melt: 2.3°C boil: 17,1°C,

Also recipes that require copper cables do not work automatically now in latest update angelssmelting_0.3.8.zip and angelsrefining_0.7.23.zip that I updated today.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by buggy123 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:29 am

cpy wrote:Also recipes that require copper cables do not work automatically now in latest update angelssmelting_0.3.8.zip and angelsrefining_0.7.23.zip that I updated today.
I can confirm this:
Image

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Arch666Angel » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:46 am

buggy123 wrote:
cpy wrote:Also recipes that require copper cables do not work automatically now in latest update angelssmelting_0.3.8.zip and angelsrefining_0.7.23.zip that I updated today.
I can confirm this:
Image
I added an extra variable for that, so the game wont use the recipe to calculate crafting paths, but seems that is not enough.

----
Image Image

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by buggy123 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:18 am

Arch666Angel wrote:
buggy123 wrote:
cpy wrote:Also recipes that require copper cables do not work automatically now in latest update angelssmelting_0.3.8.zip and angelsrefining_0.7.23.zip that I updated today.
I can confirm this:
Image
I added an extra variable for that, so the game wont use the recipe to calculate crafting paths, but seems that is not enough.

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Image Image
Ooo, a cannon turret and a rocket launcher?

...

Can we put nukes in them?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Sedar » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:00 am

Arch666Angel wrote: Image Image
Looks awesome.

I hope you pay attention to the early game content. As for the middle/endgame at the moment there is a lot of content, but at the beginning of the game the choice of weapons/defence is quite small.

ps: thank you wery much for adding a recipe for unwinding the wire spools to an electronic assembly machine. :D

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by QuackerJ4ck » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:44 pm

Whoever is still Fluorite-Ore starving:

Here a quick change:

Angelpetrochem -> prototypes -> recipes -> petrochem-sulfur.lua
Line 109 {type="item", name="fluorite-ore", amount=2},

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by cpy » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:11 pm

Electric boiler have pollution 22.2? Really? Do you have trouble breathing from all the pollution when your electric water boiler makes hot water for your coffee or tea?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by iamwyza » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:58 pm

cpy wrote:Electric boiler have pollution 22.2? Really? Do you have trouble breathing from all the pollution when your electric water boiler makes hot water for your coffee or tea?
So much this. Electric boilers are 100% clean and also should have an efficiency of >90%. (boilers can be as high as 100% efficient for indoor units, 95% for outdoor)

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:03 pm

New Angel Smelting update brings to us recipe for fiberglass board - glass + resin

And here's the serious concerning question - what to do with tons of plastic which can be received from Angel Petrochem and its awesome mini-addon PetrochemPlus by kinnom, if resin'll replace plastic in recipe for fiberglass board
There must some branch for using plastics or it will just become dusty in a warehouse as garbage
Practice shows that electronics doesn't consume a large amount of plastic, and silicone plays much more important role

if I constantly battle with aliens i can make laser ammo, but I all the same have decent amount of plastic
Making batteries of all types can't solve my problem
Last edited by aklesey1 on Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nickname on ModPortal - Naron79

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Arch666Angel » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:08 pm

iamwyza wrote:
cpy wrote:Electric boiler have pollution 22.2? Really? Do you have trouble breathing from all the pollution when your electric water boiler makes hot water for your coffee or tea?
So much this. Electric boilers are 100% clean and also should have an efficiency of >90%. (boilers can be as high as 100% efficient for indoor units, 95% for outdoor)
For arguments sake, why do electric mining drills and electric assembly machines produce pollution then?

You will never transfer 100% of the energy put into such a mechanism to the medium you want to heat, there is always an energy loss either because of material resistence, transfer mediums or other forms of energy loss from a system.

Also the matter of game balance is that you could make an infinite loop with steam engines and/or a loop with a gain with bobs steam engines.

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