Development and Discussion

[Catbert]

Hmm loosing the filter frame because it breaks makes no sense, because it could already be recovered before in the coal process.
How about: if the filter breaks, you get an empty filter case back. Which has to be recharged with aluminia.

Also, the sludge liquifying process should require water too, not just the sludge.

[Arch666Angel]

Hmm loosing the filter frame because it breaks makes no sense, because it could already be recovered before in the coal process.
How about: if the filter breaks, you get an empty filter case back. Which has to be recharged with aluminia.

Also, the sludge liquifying process should require water too, not just the sludge.

Sadly this is a limitation of the recipes in factorio, you cant say "output this at a probability of x else do this". What I could do is that you get an output with the frame and filter material separated. So with the refurbishing you would get the frame and with 80% the filter material and you need to recombine them then with another recipe. But that would require the recipe to produce the filter initially to have another step.

Not just water, if you think about it the process should require an acid. So maybe I'll add water to it and with the petrochem mod then a low level acid.

[pyanodon]

Damn.... cant wait :#

[OvermindDL1]

Just noticed, this mod adds a "Tungsten Powder" when Bobs Mods already has a "Powdered Tungsten". ^.^

[cellular]

Keep in mind that I will expand the use of this mod with my other ones, so it might be that I introduce new elements like platinum and chrome with the chemical mod I'm working on at the moment. So there will be content for high end materials aside from tungsten.

[...]

The idea is to remove/replace the resin/plastic from heavy oil recipes in bobs and the plastic from petroleum and coal in the base game with something more complex with the chemical mod, that's why I switched to working on it for the moment, because I need the basic structure to decide how to setup the bio processing further. And you are right with the recipes but again it should leave you to the choice to what you want to use, for the moment the recipe with sodium hydroxide might be the preferable because you have that stuff anyway as well as the mineralized water from the refining. What's missing there is a chain to produce methane from algae and converting that methane to chlor-methane(chloromethane? Is it called that correctly?) So the bio plant can feed its own chains on a lower yield level as it would with a supporting oil industry.

Yessss, this all sounds wonderful! The sodium hydroxide recipe is definitely fine - my only issues were with the oil-based recipes being worse than the simpler ones, and if you're rebalancing that in the petrochemicals mod (which I'm currently salivating over a bit) then that should be fine.

[OvermindDL1]

The Floatation Cell physics box is a bit large and extends past the graphical area, I.E., cannot fit between the corners of a floatation cell like we can most buildings unless a pipe is blocking, which it is not in this case.

EDIT0: Especially 'above' it, where it seems it has a bit of walking place 'behind' the building as with many vanilla ones, but the physics box extends well past where it seems the building touches the ground.

EDIT1: Do you have this on github or somewhere where we can not only submit issues found but also submit patches?

[Arch666Angel]

Just noticed, this mod adds a "Tungsten Powder" when Bobs Mods already has a "Powdered Tungsten". ^.^

Yeah I noticed that in my current game too, already changed all the powders item names to be angels-powdered-blabla, so that they are individual entities. Will dig in later to the question if both bobs and my tungsten powder should be the same or not.

All entities have basically the same collision box in the form that the box is 0.1 smaller than the tile matching selection box. That's why I try to have the buildings fit exactly the tiles, this is easier now that I do my own buildings.
There is a github, but I'd prefer feedback here in the forum and that I do implement it myself, which doesn't mean that you can throw me some lines of code or collision boxes in here. Feel free to do so

Yessss, this all sounds wonderful! The sodium hydroxide recipe is definitely fine - my only issues were with the oil-based recipes being worse than the simpler ones, and if you're rebalancing that in the petrochemicals mod (which I'm currently salivating over a bit) then that should be fine.

Yeah but you were right in the regard that I have to change something there none the less, for the case that someone isn't using the petrochem mod.

[OvermindDL1]

Just noticed, this mod adds a "Tungsten Powder" when Bobs Mods already has a "Powdered Tungsten". ^.^

Yeah I noticed that in my current game too, already changed all the powders item names to be angels-powdered-blabla, so that they are individual entities. Will dig in later to the question if both bobs and my tungsten powder should be the same or not.

I'd say they should be the same, you can replace Bob's graphic with your own for the coloring aspect of it if you want.

All entities have basically the same collision box in the form that the box is 0.1 smaller than the tile matching selection box. That's why I try to have the buildings fit exactly the tiles, this is easier now that I do my own buildings.

Yeah most fit well, like the Crusher is awesome, the collision mask is nice and tight, you can walk 'behind' it a bit and it feels right. The Flotation Cell is the big thing where the collision feels wrong (though there are others but not as big of an issue with them), primarily it needs to be brought in a little bit on all edges, and in a lot on the top for the collision box.

There is a github, but I'd prefer feedback here in the forum and that I do implement it myself, which doesn't mean that you can throw me some lines of code or collision boxes in here. Feel free to do so

Ah you do your own graphics? Exceedingly nice work!

[Arch666Angel]

Dont be scared

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A bit bigger

I'd say they should be the same, you can replace Bob's graphic with your own for the coloring aspect of it if you want.

The point is more that I want to use the powders later on for sinter processes, so they might change to have some "cleaning" processes between the ore and the powder. But that's something for later. For now my tungsten powder and bobs tungsten powder are two different items, whereas mine is easier to produce (with just the processing mod).

Yeah most fit well, like the Crusher is awesome, the collision mask is nice and tight, you can walk 'behind' it a bit and it feels right. The Flotation Cell is the big thing where the collision feels wrong (though there are others but not as big of an issue with them), primarily it needs to be brought in a little bit on all edges, and in a lot on the top for the collision box.
Ah you do your own graphics? Exceedingly nice work!

If you take a look into the longer descriptions of the mods, there is a credit under each building to the creator. Yuoki did help me out with the 4 refining buildings, ADKrieg made the crystallizer and filtration unit and I make the sorting plant, thermal extractor and water treatment plant. But I'm still learning and trying things out, so don't expect Yuoki quality and speed from me

[pyanodon]

Dont be scared

Flowchart.png

A bit bigger

Scared? Im in love ahha. Is it complete?

[Arch666Angel]

Dont be scared

Flowchart.png

A bit bigger

Scared? Im in love ahha. Is it complete?

Nope far from, still missing recipes for rubber and other uses for methane, ethane and butane. Also there are some of the bobs recipes not in there, like the sulphur chain and the nitrogen chain and the nitrogen rocket fuel chain from n-tech chemistry.

[Airat9000]

bob ore and processing work?

[IhanaMies]

With Bobsmod I noticed that Alumina ore can be made from Aluminium Ingots and Sodium Hydroxide. I think that smelting Bauxite Ore (with sodium hyd.) directly into Alumina which could be processed into Processed Aluminium Ore and Ingots makes more sense.

[OvermindDL1]

I'd say they should be the same, you can replace Bob's graphic with your own for the coloring aspect of it if you want.

The point is more that I want to use the powders later on for sinter processes, so they might change to have some "cleaning" processes between the ore and the powder. But that's something for later. For now my tungsten powder and bobs tungsten powder are two different items, whereas mine is easier to produce (with just the processing mod).

Yeah most fit well, like the Crusher is awesome, the collision mask is nice and tight, you can walk 'behind' it a bit and it feels right. The Flotation Cell is the big thing where the collision feels wrong (though there are others but not as big of an issue with them), primarily it needs to be brought in a little bit on all edges, and in a lot on the top for the collision box.
Ah you do your own graphics? Exceedingly nice work!

If you take a look into the longer descriptions of the mods, there is a credit under each building to the creator. Yuoki did help me out with the 4 refining buildings, ADKrieg made the crystallizer and filtration unit and I make the sorting plant, thermal extractor and water treatment plant. But I'm still learning and trying things out, so don't expect Yuoki quality and speed from me

Not the graphics, I am just talking about the code-side physics collision box. I can take a look at it soon but it would desync me from my server so I am hesitant to change files at moment, need to make a single player game. ;-P

Dont be scared

Flowchart.png

A bit bigger

Ooooooo, I like. This mod is easily becoming one of the *big* mods, the must-haves for me. Bobs Mods, Extra Chests, Bobs Extras, OverMod, Angels Mods, Science Overhaul (tweaked to 'uberwaffe' difficulty), BioFarm (although this might be dropped if you add in the synthetic wood recipes earlier, right now we can algae up synthetic wood before I get plastic and uses for the woods appear, plus cannot use it to make, like, boxes or so, hmm, any chance on making it real wood instead of synthetic so we could use it for everything, plus it is 'grown' fiber instead of stitched together plastic like Bob's synthetic wood is), FARL, Smart Trains, and others based on the style of game I am making (usually natural selection, misanthrope, scary night, other-mods-that-try-to-kill-you, etc...).

A question, is this designed to be used with Yuoki? Since you added its ores I guessed so however Yuoki is just so unbalanced. Its turrets rip apart the highest enemies with ease and trivial ammo cost, it has a *VERY* early game and cheap express-like inserter, infinite and easily expandable power, etc... It just does not seem like it is a mod for tiered play and is more for playing around... >.>

[Catbert]

The mod is not designed to be used with Yuoki, it only generates its resources if you have it installed.

But, if you are missing a wood process then you should like Yuoki, becaue it has such a process.

[OvermindDL1]

The mod is not designed to be used with Yuoki, it only generates its resources if you have it installed.

But, if you are missing a wood process then you should like Yuoki, becaue it has such a process.

Yeah I noticed, Yuoki things on my test server is generating infinite wood right now (and plasma ammo, which is *very* effective at holding back biters, I've had 2 turrets all game...), and I barely have the start of green research on it... Does 'not' seem balanced... >.>

[orzelek]

The mod is not designed to be used with Yuoki, it only generates its resources if you have it installed.

But, if you are missing a wood process then you should like Yuoki, becaue it has such a process.

Yeah I noticed, Yuoki things on my test server is generating infinite wood right now (and plasma ammo, which is *very* effective at holding back biters, I've had 2 turrets all game...), and I barely have the start of green research on it... Does 'not' seem balanced... >.>

Youki has wood process?
Is it in processing here or part of Yuoki mods I missed?

I'm usually using Youki base mod for it's green modules and/or ammo.

[Arch666Angel]

bob ore and processing work?

All of the mods are centered around bobmods, so yes.

The mod is not designed to be used with Yuoki, it only generates its resources if you have it installed.

But, if you are missing a wood process then you should like Yuoki, becaue it has such a process.

Its pretty much that, I did add the support for Yuoki, Uranium Power and Nucular, because they are the most commonly used in conjunction with bobmods and because it was kind of requested since some of the guys who tested the mods where playing with a similar configuration of mods. And also the refining is designed to be able to have other ores injected into the refining process, either for support of other mods, or for my own purposes to expand my own mods, like with a possible platinum or chrome ore for the petrochem mod.
Also with the mod outputting regular vanilla and bob resources without really changing something in between (it really is just a blown up process what used to be just mine the ore - put it into the smelter).

The mod is not designed to be used with Yuoki, it only generates its resources if you have it installed.

But, if you are missing a wood process then you should like Yuoki, becaue it has such a process.

Yeah I noticed, Yuoki things on my test server is generating infinite wood right now (and plasma ammo, which is *very* effective at holding back biters, I've had 2 turrets all game...), and I barely have the start of green research on it... Does 'not' seem balanced... >.>

There will be other mods from my side, if I have the stamina and ideas this might grow into a full conversion really, but that are plans for the future. I will do one mod at the time for as long as it makes sense and as long as I'm working on the resource processes that's the case.
On the wood topic: The question is if there is a way to prevent the bobs bug somehow that you cant no longer craft wood based things if you researched synthetic wood and I don't think that it's possible at the moment, so all I can do is adding recipes that will basically replace what treefarm or biofarm do as individual mods. With the addition of the other processes (biomass to gas, biomass to oils, biomass to wood, biomass to fuelblock,...).

[OvermindDL1]

The mod is not designed to be used with Yuoki, it only generates its resources if you have it installed.

But, if you are missing a wood process then you should like Yuoki, becaue it has such a process.

Yeah I noticed, Yuoki things on my test server is generating infinite wood right now (and plasma ammo, which is *very* effective at holding back biters, I've had 2 turrets all game...), and I barely have the start of green research on it... Does 'not' seem balanced... >.>

Youki has wood process?
Is it in processing here or part of Yuoki mods I missed?

I'm usually using Youki base mod for it's green modules and/or ammo.

I forget the exact thing, but it was something that ate 1 wood (planks) and something else (mud or something stupid easy like that), it made 1 wood (logs, which 'each' can be converted to 2 wood planks) and something else, which is easy to make a loop out of, and I ended up filling a warehouse...

The mod is not designed to be used with Yuoki, it only generates its resources if you have it installed.

But, if you are missing a wood process then you should like Yuoki, becaue it has such a process.

Its pretty much that, I did add the support for Yuoki, Uranium Power and Nucular, because they are the most commonly used in conjunction with bobmods and because it was kind of requested since some of the guys who tested the mods where playing with a similar configuration of mods. And also the refining is designed to be able to have other ores injected into the refining process, either for support of other mods, or for my own purposes to expand my own mods, like with a possible platinum or chrome ore for the petrochem mod.
Also with the mod outputting regular vanilla and bob resources without really changing something in between (it really is just a blown up process what used to be just mine the ore - put it into the smelter).

Good to hear, I am not liking Yuoki and unsure why it is used other than being rather excessively cheaty, we've already voted to remove it from the next server build as well.

The mod is not designed to be used with Yuoki, it only generates its resources if you have it installed.

But, if you are missing a wood process then you should like Yuoki, becaue it has such a process.

Yeah I noticed, Yuoki things on my test server is generating infinite wood right now (and plasma ammo, which is *very* effective at holding back biters, I've had 2 turrets all game...), and I barely have the start of green research on it... Does 'not' seem balanced... >.>

There will be other mods from my side, if I have the stamina and ideas this might grow into a full conversion really, but that are plans for the future. I will do one mod at the time for as long as it makes sense and as long as I'm working on the resource processes that's the case.

Definitely looking forward, your style is so wonderfully Factorio-seeming to us, but 'more', like Bob's Mods, it is fantastic.

On the wood topic: The question is if there is a way to prevent the bobs bug somehow that you cant no longer craft wood based things if you researched synthetic wood and I don't think that it's possible at the moment, so all I can do is adding recipes that will basically replace what treefarm or biofarm do as individual mods. With the addition of the other processes (biomass to gas, biomass to oils, biomass to wood, biomass to fuelblock,...).

Not in the current version of Factorio, and not in 0.13 either yet based on what I have read, and yes it bugs the tar out of me. I've been tempted to add to my mod a post-step that replaces all synthetic wood with real wood and removing/hiding the synthetic wood just so it fits, plus it would fix things like not being able to make wood boxes and such from the synthetic wood. I've never added large-scale production for synthetic wood yet because of that on any of my servers (though one person did add it for just making circuits). If you perhaps wanted to kill Bob's Mods synthetic wood and replace it with normal wood, that would be awesome, Bob's Library even has a function to do mass replace like that as I recall (used for his circuits).

I really really hate that synthetic wood bug, I'd be good with keeping synthetic wood (only usable for certain things like circuits or so) if that manual recipe bug did not happen. If anything I'd say his processing for synthetic wood should instead make 'Synthetic Wood Fibers' that would then get processed/woven/packed via assembler to a wood log for max compat, though I hate the way that 'feels' personally, hrmm... Eh, he should remove the synthetic wood processing entirely, and your algae processing should make wood and not synthetic wood perhaps... Perhaps his processing should make certain circuit boards straight skipping the synthetic wood step.


EDIT0: Also yay the Factorio boards give an error saving my post! Just noticed they are using PHP, and PHPBB of all things... That is such a *horrible* forum system, the coding is buggy (as seen), unstable, rife with security issues, etc... Why..the...hell would they use it...

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Stupid bug

And yes I know the reason for that bug, their MySQL bindings (why mysql...) are not set to unicode. They should fix that, not enabling unicode support allows for a few injection attacks using unicode on the non-unicode supported interface. Again, ugh... Wonder if they give a bounty for reporting bugs, I could craft an example attack to destroy the forum... Wonder if they want someone to help them host an actually decent and secure forum...

EDIT1: Upon thought the Discourse forum would likely be best suited for Factorio. Not only is it highly themable and functional, but its Tag system combined with the JSON interfacces for it would be beyond *fantastic* for a Mod listing section, which would be very easy to not only build on to Discourse itself for a dedicated website section, but the JSON API would be wonderfully easy to bind for Factorio or any mod manager program as well.

[Arch666Angel]

Yuoki did not balance the mod around vanilla or to be a good addition to other mods, it is more like what he missed and wanted to have in the game and what he did with power generation and the other parts is pretty cool, but it has and is intended to have another feel than the base game.
For my personal games I only use bobs and some quality of life mod really and of course my own, but that's it. And like Yuoki I do mod in what I think is missing from the game or bobs. One point where you can see this is the base game mod in vanilla, there one can see that the concept works fine for bobmods and a shitton of resources, but falls short with just copper and iron as ores.
So it is always a question of personal preference, that of the modder and that of the player.

I'll have to do some experiments on the wood-board issue when I get to that, but I would probably change it so that you have to process the wood into fibers (which you already can) and then remove the other recipes for making wooden board, so that the only ways to craft wooden boards are with fibers, that wont do the trick with the recipe blocking, but at least you wont be able to turn a tree into a circuit board directly.

Edit: With the current flowchart there are already 2 recipes each for different resins and plastics, so there is room to replace the current plastic/resin and synthetic wood with these recipes and do a tirade on them