Development and Discussion

[Arch666Angel]

while such idea is appealing, and even will make sense, such linear scaling will not make much sense, also there is issue with graphic, just enlarged classic assembler to 6x6 will look fugly. (and i don't think about pixelating, if you use lowres sprite, i'm talking about fact, that current assembler model doesn't have enough details for upscaling)

not to mention, current assemblers accept item limit + 1 fluid, yes fluid is not included in ingredient limit and assemblers have intake for fluid. which on even limit count (therefore even assembler size), will look weird, because it will not be centered.

So assemblers will scale from 2x2 to 4x4, the bigger the assembler the slower it is crafting speed wise but the more ingredients it can take. Question is if ingredient count should still rise from tier to tier or if it is just the crafting speed that will get up over tiers.

I'll try to get out at least a test version before the Christmas holidays, but I'm not sure I will manage.

If you think about it, you can do both in tick/tock manner
T0 - 2x2, 3x3, 4x4 - respective item count, speed 0.5
T1 - increase speed by 50% , eg. 0.75
T2 - increase item limit on each by one, speed as blue
T3 - increase speed to 1.0
T4 - increase item limit by one
T5 - increase speed to 1.5

And asincetive for people upgrading from big to smal, when changing item limit, keep same power consumption, while speed increase will result in slightly higher power consumption

I will give it some thought but I like the general idea behind that.

I will probably re-invent the ingredient limit but more for the purpose of assembling machine of different size and speed, so you can produce stuff but you have to choose specific machines to do so. But it will be a buttload of work because I have to manually adjust crafting categories for all recipes in assembling machines or come up with some more elaborate code.

This sounds more like pyMods, where most of the new recipes require specialized machines for them. It's a cool approach, but has the obvious problem that it takes a ton of work to design and model so many new buildings. And from a gameplay perspective, it requires to create and hold on to a ton of different items with very specific uses, clogging up the inventory.

Not really, assemblers will still be the generalized construction machine and the biggest machine will still be able to take all recipes, but it will also be the slowest option, while smaller ones are restricted to a certain ingredient limit, but are faster. So there is an incentive to puzzle together the different sizes to use the most efficient setup.

[safan]

I have a suggestion to remove the clutter. If you are going to rework everything anyways, you can easily implement this.

Each building size has a foundation recipe. This foundation can be converted in any building of that size (for free). When you place and pickup the building, you get the foundation back.

This means you don't have to run around with a single "oil and gas separator". You can just place it, pick it up, get a 5x5 foundation back, that you can convert in the steam cracker you needed.

This way you just have a stack of each size foundation in your inventory, removing clutter and unneeded buildings.

[Arch666Angel]

I have a suggestion to remove the clutter. If you are going to rework everything anyways, you can easily implement this.

Each building size has a foundation recipe. This foundation can be converted in any building of that size (for free). When you place and pickup the building, you get the foundation back.

This means you don't have to run around with a single "oil and gas separator". You can just place it, pick it up, get a 5x5 foundation back, that you can convert in the steam cracker you needed.

This way you just have a stack of each size foundation in your inventory, removing clutter and unneeded buildings.

I already have a building block system in there, that comes close to what you are suggesting

[unkst4ck3r]

Recently got into Bob's/Angel's combined, second attempt so far.

Got a couple of suggestions:

Apart from the Pressure Tank, all Angel Fluid Tanks have the same capacity/tile. Since the small tanks are more flexible, there is virtually no reason at all to build the larger variants. I'd suggest giving the larger tanks an increasingly higher capacity/tile to promote actual variety between the models. It would make sense as well, since for every tile (m²) in real life, volume increases in m³, assuming equal expansion along each axis (x,y,z). Not sure if pressure tanks have an electricity requirement right now, but might be something to consider
-Make the gas storage tank only usable for gasses. I have no idea about modding, so I don't know if it is actually possible to implement. I do think though that it would be a good change to give more purpose to each of the entities plus also adding to "Immersion" if you will.
-Reduce impact damage of construction vehicle. Especially with Bobs Enemies, where it is really hard to kill even a nest with a Submachine Gun and Piercing Ammo, it is quite ridiculous in my opinion that you can literally oneshot Nests with this thing by impact. That should be reserved for tanks. Either that or increase damage taken from impact. I do like the fact though that you have to be careful around your own base not to onehit your own structures. Id suggest to remove the onehit potential on nests and keep it for friendly structures.
-On my second attempt, I started in a desert (Peaceful mode, reduced evolution, high resource density). Once I needed some wood I went to look for one of the special Angel's trees to generate Tree seeds. After about 5 full spirals exploring around my base without finding a SINGLE tree (only gardens and Puffer nests) I finally gave up and just built 4 Greenhouses from Bob's mods. I dont know if this is somehow intended behavior but it was painfully tedious.

On a final note, since many people seem to play Angels and Bobs together, it might be worth taking into consideration of making a compatibility patch dealing with redundancies between the 2 mods (Chemical plants, Electrolysers for example) by either removing one or the other option or somehow balancing them against each other. Would give all of it an even more polished feel.

All that being said, thank you and hats off for creating such an amazing and intruguing gameplay overhaul!

[Light]

Apart from the Pressure Tank, all Angel Fluid Tanks have the same capacity/tile. Since the small tanks are more flexible, there is virtually no reason at all to build the larger variants. I'd suggest giving the larger tanks an increasingly higher capacity/tile to promote actual variety between the models. It would make sense as well, since for every tile (m²) in real life, volume increases in m³, assuming equal expansion along each axis (x,y,z). Not sure if pressure tanks have an electricity requirement right now, but might be something to consider

Pressure tanks may seem superior, but they also require pumps to get any decent flow due to their mass capacity. Smaller tanks have superior flow, but lack any real storage. The happy medium is the Gas/Oil tanks which can store slightly more without compromising flow considerably. They're also cheap and have their uses depending on your setup, with the two tanks having four fluid pipes in different areas depending on your need.

While it makes sense to increase their capacity per tile, it also impacts their performance to the point pumps may be required; Then pressure tanks will be the primary choice in that situation which defeats the point.

-On my second attempt, I started in a desert (Peaceful mode, reduced evolution, high resource density). Once I needed some wood I went to look for one of the special Angel's trees to generate Tree seeds. After about 5 full spirals exploring around my base without finding a SINGLE tree (only gardens and Puffer nests) I finally gave up and just built 4 Greenhouses from Bob's mods. I dont know if this is somehow intended behavior but it was painfully tedious.

That's the great thing about randomly generated maps. You don't know what you'll have and sometimes it's remarkably far away.

I've got a map with an important resource over 50 chunks away across an ocean. A train line is impossible without 20,000+ tracks to circle the ocean towards it, or far less if I just landfill my way across the ocean (but I don't want to). That's the dice roll I've been dealt and it helped shake up the experience by being unexpected.

Depending on the dice roll, there are some forest areas with half a dozen Angel's trees grouped together. That's pretty good given they're infinite use, so keep an eye out for grasslands.

You may also want to look into getting Big Brother with Bob's Plugin to extend the range of the radars. It's a major help when exploring great distances becomes too time consuming, with the power requirements also scaled up to strike a proper balance. A single radar can expose a remarkable distance when fully upgraded, making them great for distant outposts where recon is important. Give it a try.

[OkariDraconis]

I'd personally like to see a way to get all the Trees, Gardens, Puffers, & Fish through none exploratory means. Trees & Gardens (seeds) could gotten from an aviary, fish eggs gotten from processing water, and Puffers could be gotten from processing Air. (Just examples).. But basically the production rate for getting something would likely need to be 60s with a 0.01 chance of getting an egg / seed and a 0.01 of it turning into a Tree, Garden, Puffer, Fish etc..
So basically with the crafting process at a speed of 1 (overall) you'd get one of the desired items every ~166 hours of play time. Granted setting up 10 production lines from the get go would reduce that.

So if Random Gen is silly, or they are playing SeaBlock they can get these interesting technologies / production lines.

[unkst4ck3r]

Regarding the construction robots, am I right in the assumption that Bobs Robots make those completely obsolete?

[jodokus31]

Regarding the construction robots, am I right in the assumption that Bobs Robots make those completely obsolete?

Not really, they are green science without the need for advanced circuits or batteries and nice with the crawler vehicle/train (IMHO a good alternative to nanobots). I use them with 3 vehicle roboports -> 150 robots.

[GrumpyJoe]

Regarding the construction robots, am I right in the assumption that Bobs Robots make those completely obsolete?

The construction ones are great if used in the crawler vehicle, not so much in the train imho. Anything you´d want to build from the train seems too slow and you dont lay tracks into some free room just to let bots work. But driving the vehicle there and let bots build while doing other stuff, i dont mind their speed.

And if you have not tried the logistic robots, they can carry ALOT (i believ its 100) per trip. I love using them as a very early bot based mall transport system.
And i tend to keep those all the way into the endgame. Letting the mall work while away, you dont need speed.

[unkst4ck3r]

I meant obsolete once you can research the regular Bobs Construction Bots. I am very happy to have Angels Bots because I havent hit Science 3 yet I am just wondering if in direct comparison between the construction bots the Angels have any advantage?

[mexmer]

I meant obsolete once you can research the regular Bobs Construction Bots. I am very happy to have Angels Bots because I havent hit Science 3 yet I am just wondering if in direct comparison between the construction bots the Angels have any advantage?

yes, they are cute

[Zyrconia]

I meant obsolete once you can research the regular Bobs Construction Bots. I am very happy to have Angels Bots because I havent hit Science 3 yet I am just wondering if in direct comparison between the construction bots the Angels have any advantage?

Never used them, Nanobots all the way! At least until I get lube, which is fairly late game in Angel's.

But cargo bots, I use them all the time. Mark 1s. Mark 2s require lube again...

[foodfactorio]

At the moment there is a arbitrary limit on the number of indigence in a recipe a given assembler tier can work with 2 for MK1, 4, including one fluid for MK2. That limit will be gone in .17 vanilla.
The "problem" at the moment that you can't automate the casting machines with MK2 assemblers, so I suggested an intermediate Item to reduce the indigence count from 5 to 3.

thanks for clarifying, so the limit removal is a good thing then (apart from extra modders work of course)

[unkst4ck3r]

On Angel's Logistics: While I really like the Cargo Robots (especially MK2) I think it is a bit disappointing that the Construction Bots become useless once you have Vanilla or Bobs Bots. The Medium Logistic Zone Expander has one big problem: the top part prevents the player from clicking anything built behind it that is up to 2x2 tiles big. Also I feel like either the Logistic Area it provides should be bigger or at least add multiple tiers to it.

I dont know if its possible or Angel even wants to put the effort in it, but making Bobs or Vanilla bots and Angels bots synergize between each other would be nice, once again because so many people seem to enjoy explicitly the combo of those two gameplay overhauls.

I also have a question, what is the difference between Smelting, Petrochem Trains and train tenders (whatever those are) between each other and to Vanilla trains (except the added equipment grid)?

[Aquaholic27]

Where can we find more information on the update to Angel's Industries? This looks *very* interesting!

[unkst4ck3r]

I also just noticed that for some reason the Storage Warehouses do not have a filter option. And is there any particular reason there are no buffer Warehouses/Silos?

[mrvn]

I also just noticed that for some reason the Storage Warehouses do not have a filter option. And is there any particular reason there are no buffer Warehouses/Silos?

A warehouse is just a large chest and chests have no filter. You need a train car for that. Not sure if that's moddable.

[unkst4ck3r]

Im talking about Logistic Storage Warehouses.

[aklesey1]

Hi Arch666Angel
When we can await some more or less serious updates from u for angel's mods?

[Arch666Angel]

Most likely only after 0.17 hits