Development and Discussion

Infinite Ores, Refining, Ore Processing ...

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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby crysanja » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:06 pm

@Zyrconia

Casting iron from liquid has a base speed of 4 plates in 4 secs.
Cutting iron from sheets has a base speed of 4 plate in 0.5 secs.
Depending on crafting speed of the producer and modules, cutting is 8x faster then casting. Assemblers can use more modules too, which will increase this factor.

I havent played the current version, but i usualy had liquid transportation/piping issues with metals.
However the numbers used above are from the current version.
Using sheets on belts makes them kind of 4x more efficent.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby Termak » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:20 pm

Easy fix for that, just direct overflow processed iron to plain iron smelting.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby Zyrconia » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:59 pm

crysanja wrote:@Zyrconia

Casting iron from liquid has a base speed of 4 plates in 4 secs.
Cutting iron from sheets has a base speed of 4 plate in 0.5 secs.
Depending on crafting speed of the producer and modules, cutting is 8x faster then casting. Assemblers can use more modules too, which will increase this factor.

I havent played the current version, but i usualy had liquid transportation/piping issues with metals.
However the numbers used above are from the current version.
Using sheets on belts makes them kind of 4x more efficent.

Thanks!

I never used sheets before.

Whatever the base speed of the normal casting process is, that is what I use :).
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby Zyrconia » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:24 pm

So do you guys use one input multiple outputs ore sorting? Ore is it just a stepping stone towards multiple input sorting. Crushed saphirite sorting vs. "4x iron" sorting (saphirite + jiv inputs).

I always used multiple inputs one because I still can't imagine how you can balance the multiple output ones so that you base never ever locks up.

But I'm feeling like I'm missing a big chunk of angel's playing like this.

Zyrconia wrote:
crysanja wrote:@Zyrconia

Casting iron from liquid has a base speed of 4 plates in 4 secs.
Cutting iron from sheets has a base speed of 4 plate in 0.5 secs.
Depending on crafting speed of the producer and modules, cutting is 8x faster then casting. Assemblers can use more modules too, which will increase this factor.

I havent played the current version, but i usualy had liquid transportation/piping issues with metals.
However the numbers used above are from the current version.
Using sheets on belts makes them kind of 4x more efficent.

Thanks!

I never used sheets before.

Whatever the base speed of the normal casting process is, that is what I use :).


Wait a minute...

Unless the sheet casting process has some inherent productivity, speed is absolutely irrelevant. All that is important is the quantity of input. Speed just means that you need more or less assemblers to consume 100% of the input.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby crysanja » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:38 am

Yes you get more out of the ores this way.
However i thought it was about transportation and on spot production.
Cutting sheets on spot can work, i dont think it would be reasonable to place something like 4-8 casting machines with liquid piping wherever you need iron plates(or a different metal plate)
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby mrvn » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:50 am

jodokus31 wrote:
mrvn wrote:
After reading this I went and added ferrous ore crushing, sorting and iron/manganese mixed smelting. It's just so nice to make iron/steel plates with no waste products.

But then I researched "Advanced Iron Smelting 2" which gives you processed iron. This is something that only needs red and green science packs. Processed iron is 50% more efficient. Problem is that "Advanced Manganese Smelting 2" requires blue science. So it is a lot harder to get. And you are stuck with an unbalanced production again. Now I have a mountain of manganese left. :(

Shouldn't all the processed XYZ stuff require the same set of science packs? Why is processing manganese so much harder?


I got the same problem. On the other hand, you also need an additional source for iron ore, because steel needs it too, and manganese doesn't help, because its also blue science (?). I hooked up an additional saphirite/stiratite (additional copper is needed, too) sorting with slag, and feed the slag back to the crystalizers with priority splitter or simply landfill


Sure. It's just that I build a nice little iron plate complex starting with a seafloor pump, producing geodes, crushing, filtering, crystalizing to the three ores for ferrous ore, crushing, sorting and smelting that. The complex outputs some mineralized water and sulfur if wanted and a ton of iron plates. That then side loads onto the belt from the mixed sorting. Was nice to have it all self contained for a while.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby Carch » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:36 pm

um. already commented on the mod repository page, but I think I've found a bug that prevents you from continuing with angel's smelting without using bob's mods. as making cement requires silicon ore (which you cannot obtain without bobs, insofar as I can see?).

is there a workaround or am I missing something?


either way, thanks so much for these mods! I've been following them for a while now. really makes the game much more fun, especially the chemistry is making it far, far deeper.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby Asanda_Nima » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:39 pm

Arch666Angel wrote:Image
The model on the right is probably gonna get scrapped, not happy with it :P
Image

Image



Do you plan to update logistics for 0.16 or wait until the "angels industries" is ready?

Regardless of this. Thanks for your great work and I hope you will come up with more interesting ideas :)
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby bonesbro » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:32 pm

Carch wrote:um. already commented on the mod repository page, but I think I've found a bug that prevents you from continuing with angel's smelting without using bob's mods. as making cement requires silicon ore (which you cannot obtain without bobs, insofar as I can see?).

is there a workaround or am I missing something?


either way, thanks so much for these mods! I've been following them for a while now. really makes the game much more fun, especially the chemistry is making it far, far deeper.


:) I reported the same thing on the Bugs thread a couple of days ago. I'm working on a big post about other recipes & techs that should probably be hidden if Bob's isn't installed. There are a lot of smelting recipes and petrochem recipes that have no use without Bob's. It looks like the LUA just needs a lot more "if bobmods.plates" around stuff :)
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby MadClown01 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:13 pm

Arch666Angel wrote:Exciting things


Heya, I notice now that Bob's Greenhouses and Angel's Bioprocessing bring out "fertiliser" and "fertilizer" respectively. This duplication without any overrides seems to indicate that these mods are not really intended to be compatible.

Just have a few questions to clarify the direction here:

As it stands, it seems that a "pure" Angel's playthrough making maximum use of your features requires bobplates, bobrevamp - but should not include bobgreenhouse?
Will Angel's Components & Tech be compatible with bobtech and bobelectronics?
Will Angel's Logistics be compatible with boblogistics?
What is your position on compatibility between Bob's mods and your eventual vision for Angel's Industries?
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby jodokus31 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:05 am

MadClown01 wrote:As it stands, it seems that a "pure" Angel's playthrough making maximum use of your features requires bobplates, bobrevamp - but should not include bobgreenhouse?


In my opinion, greenhouse is not strictly needed, because you are able to get enough wood products (wood plates, resin, circuit-boards) with angels bioprocessing.
I think "pure" angels means at least, the greenhouse is not used.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby Termak » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:45 am

Angels bioprocessing has great ways of making wood products nowdays, but hunting the trees takes a while at start unless lucky.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby mexmer » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:14 am

jodokus31 wrote:
MadClown01 wrote:As it stands, it seems that a "pure" Angel's playthrough making maximum use of your features requires bobplates, bobrevamp - but should not include bobgreenhouse?


In my opinion, greenhouse is not strictly needed, because you are able to get enough wood products (wood plates, resin, circuit-boards) with angels bioprocessing.
I think "pure" angels means at least, the greenhouse is not used.

you don't need greenhouse, you can get wood related stuff from algae (under bioprocessing), it's just matter of convenience. greenhouses are easy to setup and start production. getting resing or woodboard from algae is slow long process with many buildings, and it's not even self sufficient (unlike greenhouses, which only need water and energy, after you boot greenhouse ring with few chunks of wood, it works without any control)
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby ukezi » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:12 am

they are self sufficient, with an input of power and water, you just need a lot more side stuff for it. like dirt water electrolysis for slag -> crushed stone ->mineral water and wood pallets->CO2. for four farms producing whatever you need 3 to do CO2.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby mexmer » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:14 am

ukezi wrote:they are self sufficient, with an input of power and water, you just need a lot more side stuff for it. like dirt water electrolysis for slag -> crushed stone ->mineral water and wood pallets->CO2. for four farms producing whatever you need 3 to do CO2.

ah, i thought dirt water electrolysis is sea block stuff, then yes, it's self sufficient, but setup is horendously big. and output compared to space occupied is really low.

there is no reason to do such thing, when you have greenhouses, unless you are masochist.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby MadClown01 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:44 am

mexmer wrote:there is no reason to do such thing, when you have greenhouses, unless you are masochist.

Exactly
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby mrvn » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:06 pm

mexmer wrote:
ukezi wrote:they are self sufficient, with an input of power and water, you just need a lot more side stuff for it. like dirt water electrolysis for slag -> crushed stone ->mineral water and wood pallets->CO2. for four farms producing whatever you need 3 to do CO2.

ah, i thought dirt water electrolysis is sea block stuff, then yes, it's self sufficient, but setup is horendously big. and output compared to space occupied is really low.

there is no reason to do such thing, when you have greenhouses, unless you are masochist.


In SeaBlock I get geodes from mud water processing, then geodes can be crushed to give crushed stone as side product to make mineralized water. Some of it you need to filter crystal slurry to mineral sludge for ore crystalization. But tehre is some left over. From Bioprocessing there also seem to be a number of recipes that produce cellulose fibers from various fruits or seeds to supplement your green algae chain.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby mexmer » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:23 pm

mrvn wrote:
mexmer wrote:
ukezi wrote:they are self sufficient, with an input of power and water, you just need a lot more side stuff for it. like dirt water electrolysis for slag -> crushed stone ->mineral water and wood pallets->CO2. for four farms producing whatever you need 3 to do CO2.

ah, i thought dirt water electrolysis is sea block stuff, then yes, it's self sufficient, but setup is horendously big. and output compared to space occupied is really low.

there is no reason to do such thing, when you have greenhouses, unless you are masochist.


In SeaBlock I get geodes from mud water processing, then geodes can be crushed to give crushed stone as side product to make mineralized water. Some of it you need to filter crystal slurry to mineral sludge for ore crystalization. But tehre is some left over. From Bioprocessing there also seem to be a number of recipes that produce cellulose fibers from various fruits or seeds to supplement your green algae chain.

guess you misunderstood me, i thought that dirt water->slag electrolysis is seablock specific recipe, and this one process is the one, that allows selfsustain of algae farms, since when you have mineralized water, you can do all other stuff needed to make it running in cycles.

in that regard therefore algae production is self sufficient (and consequetly wood stuff from algae chain), like greenhouses are selfsufficient - both processes only need water and energy to continue indefinetly (well greenhouse need few logs of wood for startup)
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby mrvn » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:39 pm

mexmer wrote:
mrvn wrote:
mexmer wrote:
ukezi wrote:they are self sufficient, with an input of power and water, you just need a lot more side stuff for it. like dirt water electrolysis for slag -> crushed stone ->mineral water and wood pallets->CO2. for four farms producing whatever you need 3 to do CO2.

ah, i thought dirt water electrolysis is sea block stuff, then yes, it's self sufficient, but setup is horendously big. and output compared to space occupied is really low.

there is no reason to do such thing, when you have greenhouses, unless you are masochist.


In SeaBlock I get geodes from mud water processing, then geodes can be crushed to give crushed stone as side product to make mineralized water. Some of it you need to filter crystal slurry to mineral sludge for ore crystalization. But tehre is some left over. From Bioprocessing there also seem to be a number of recipes that produce cellulose fibers from various fruits or seeds to supplement your green algae chain.

guess you misunderstood me, i thought that dirt water->slag electrolysis is seablock specific recipe, and this one process is the one, that allows selfsustain of algae farms, since when you have mineralized water, you can do all other stuff needed to make it running in cycles.

in that regard therefore algae production is self sufficient (and consequetly wood stuff from algae chain), like greenhouses are selfsufficient - both processes only need water and energy to continue indefinetly (well greenhouse need few logs of wood for startup)


I didn't get you wrong. Just wanted to add that in Sea Block you have other sources for Mineralized Water and Cellulose Fiber too.

A Green Algae power plant is a great sink for excess crushed stone or slag too. Set it up to use the outside sources as priority (easy with a priority splitter) and you don't have to worry about crushed stone halting your ore crushers or slag halting your ore sorting ever again. And if there is no excess it can be setup to be self sustaining, as you said.
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Re: Development and Discussion

Postby mexmer » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:48 pm

mrvn wrote:
mexmer wrote:
mrvn wrote:
mexmer wrote:
ukezi wrote:they are self sufficient, with an input of power and water, you just need a lot more side stuff for it. like dirt water electrolysis for slag -> crushed stone ->mineral water and wood pallets->CO2. for four farms producing whatever you need 3 to do CO2.

ah, i thought dirt water electrolysis is sea block stuff, then yes, it's self sufficient, but setup is horendously big. and output compared to space occupied is really low.

there is no reason to do such thing, when you have greenhouses, unless you are masochist.


In SeaBlock I get geodes from mud water processing, then geodes can be crushed to give crushed stone as side product to make mineralized water. Some of it you need to filter crystal slurry to mineral sludge for ore crystalization. But tehre is some left over. From Bioprocessing there also seem to be a number of recipes that produce cellulose fibers from various fruits or seeds to supplement your green algae chain.

guess you misunderstood me, i thought that dirt water->slag electrolysis is seablock specific recipe, and this one process is the one, that allows selfsustain of algae farms, since when you have mineralized water, you can do all other stuff needed to make it running in cycles.

in that regard therefore algae production is self sufficient (and consequetly wood stuff from algae chain), like greenhouses are selfsufficient - both processes only need water and energy to continue indefinetly (well greenhouse need few logs of wood for startup)


I didn't get you wrong. Just wanted to add that in Sea Block you have other sources for Mineralized Water and Cellulose Fiber too.

A Green Algae power plant is a great sink for excess crushed stone or slag too. Set it up to use the outside sources as priority (easy with a priority splitter) and you don't have to worry about crushed stone halting your ore crushers or slag halting your ore sorting ever again. And if there is no excess it can be setup to be self sustaining, as you said.

if you play seablock, you rarely have excess crushed stone, since you need it for mineral sludge, to get any metals :D

i can show you ultimate setup, but in the end, algae has own electrolyzer farm, and metal production has also own, with back drafting geodes and stuff.

btw. there are no greenhouses in seablock modpack.
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