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How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=99207

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How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:41 pm
by Binoculars
Hello factorian friends,

I would like my arms to pick up a number of items when the conveyor is full. Is there a simpler way than this creation ?


In this one, it is an R-S rocker which is used. I can't get what I wanted, which is a creation that is easier to configure in other cases.

It amazes me not to find the solution because the majority of my creations are much more complex than that.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:55 pm
by DaveMcW
Inserters pulling from a belt is a difficult case. You need to keep the enable signal on for 30 ticks or so while they pick up 12 items. So a R/S latch is probably the simplest you can get.

There are some things you could do to make it easier to configure:
  • Don't use the circuit network to set stack size, it is not needed.
  • Pick a neutral signal like "S" to use as the enable condition.
  • Put the min and max in a constant combinator.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:18 pm
by Binoculars
Thanks for this feedback DaveMcW.

Indeed, the arithmetic combiner is not useful. I had set it up to more easily configure the number of articles taken by the inserter.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:13 am
by quyxkh
There's a two-combinator R-S latch for tractable situations like this.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:33 am
by Binoculars
quyxkh wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:13 am
 There's a two-combinator R-S latch for tractable situations like this.
Thank you for sharing. However in this creation, the first chest is filled a little more, the second a little less and from the third, all the chests are filled equally.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:54 pm
by quyxkh
Binoculars wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:33 am
quyxkh wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:13 am
 There's a two-combinator R-S latch for tractable situations like this.
Thank you for sharing. However in this creation, the first chest is filled a little more, the second a little less and from the third, all the chests are filled equally.
Well, you've got 52 chests, 52 inserters, 52×12 is 624 and you're enabling the inserters when 620 more have passed the entry counter than been picked up. That seemed a little fishy to me, so I tried upping it to > 630 and the glitch went away. This latch responds faster.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:38 pm
by Binoculars
[/quote]
Well, you've got 52 chests, 52 inserters, 52×12 is 624 and you're enabling the inserters when 620 more have passed the entry counter than been picked up. That seemed a little fishy to me, so I tried upping it to > 630 and the glitch went away. This latch responds faster.
[/quote]

Effectively, it seems more stable like this. There is still a lag, however, with the penultimate chest taking up one less item every now and then.

I thought creating this would be a simple routine, it isn't.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:40 pm
by quyxkh
It's down to tuning the enable timing, I thought you'd already know the drill from having had to go through it before, to set up the constants on your own bp, but I'm guessing you got the bad kind of lucky. You want to enable and disable as late as possible.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:45 pm
by Binoculars
quyxkh wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:40 pm
 It's down to tuning the enable timing, I thought you'd already know the drill from having had to go through it before, to set up the constants on your own bp, but I'm guessing you got the bad kind of lucky. You want to enable and disable as late as possible.
It is doubt related to that. This is the last part of my project, that all the arms take the same number of articles at the same time. I already know how to manage the outputs, see this creation: viewtopic.php?f=193&t=99128
I'll try to find another way.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:15 am
by quyxkh
Binoculars wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:45 pm
 that all the arms take the same number of articles at the same time
Okay. A little staring showed the problem being item chasing across lanes confusing the inserter pickups to where they lose time, so the actual pickups got smeared out as the gaps changed and the overlap between pickup exit and belt supply entrance got complicated, there wasn't a predictable threshold. Making the pickup choice simple enough for the inserters' tiny minds cleard that right up.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:32 am
by Binoculars
Quyxkh, really good work. I had thought about doing this for a while, but I didn't want to cut into the compactness of the creation (since I always play without any tags). Initially, I wanted to incorporate this idea into a steel production. I will try to start from this idea, but without the coffers. Thank you anyway.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:34 pm
by Binoculars
It would seem that this is stable with only one conveyor.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:50 pm
by quyxkh
So that count does hit a threshold where the plate positions and enable timing sync up right, and I just gave up too soon.

But both setups get out of sync with any supply interruption at all, to make it reliable I think you'd have to put a leadin 78-belt block and some circuitry to let them through 624 at a time and only when they're all nicely compressed.

Re: How to activate the inserters under certain conditions

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:56 pm
by Binoculars
I'm just wondering how to adapt this creation with fewer or more inserter. Let's say I only have 8 inserters, what calculations have been made to adapt the synchronization?
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