Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

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Zanthra
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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by Zanthra »

Kyralessa wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:14 am
_Shin_ wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:43 am
Right...or I could just give them different names like i've done for like 3 years now.
You could. Train limits solve some problems, but can create new ones.

I always send an artillery train around to keep things clean at my outposts.

With train limits, I've named all my iron mines the same, all my copper mines the same, etc. For the artillery train, this causes two problems:
  • I can't send it to individual mines anymore, because it randomly picks from among the same-named stations. It'll go to an iron mine to shoot, but I can't know which one.
  • If I have very low train limits on a set of stations, the artillery train can even get stuck and not go anywhere because no stations are free for it.
Which is not to say I don't like the train limits, but just that I need to do some more thinking about how my artillery train fits into all this.

Train limits don’t cause that problem, same name stations cause that problem, and that’s was true before train limits too.

Train limits solve one problem with same name stations, arguably the biggest blocking problem when scaling same name stations to many trains and outposts, but it never was the only reason not to use them.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by hale42 »

I also thought this would solve more than it actually did.

My trains "studder-step" their way to the limited station.

Example: 50 trains, 3 stations limit 1 train each.

Each station becomes active ALL 50 trains move toward the closest station, 49 trains recalculate to the next closest, 48 trains recalculate to the next closest, 47 recalculate to the last station. That repeats until one frees up and the cycle starts anew but everytime it does they all move just a little. So a near 50 train clog slowly marches toward my poor stations.

Now before you say it I know what I have to do just sharing my facepalm moment from the other day, I had a good laugh about it

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by Serenity »

hale42 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:14 am
50 trains, 3 stations limit 1 train each.
Nobody ever claimed that train stop limits would solve that specific situation alone. You still need some kind of depot/parking area for all those trains when they can't go anywhere else.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by Nosferatu »

Never encountered what hale described there. Maybe post save?

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by KeepGridButton »

On many occasions I've really wished there was a round robin option for visiting stations of the same name. I'd like to just have an artillery train that stops at all stations named "Art" in a round robin fashion. The only way I've found to do this is really complicated circuit wise and requires wiring all stations together, or building an artillery gun at each station to use as a inventory count, which defeats the purpose of having a train doing the job.
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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by astroshak »

The Artillery Wagon holds 100 shells. The Cargo Wagon only holds 40.

I would rather set up stationary defenses (you have to anyway, to deal with the biters that come when artillery destroys a spawner) and disable the Artillery Wagon’s ability to fire, using it as a weighty ammo crate, ferrying shells to stationary artillery that are in need of resupply.

To me, the other main benefit of the Artillery Wagon is that you can build a rail line out somewhere, attach a few Artillery Wagons to your personal supply train, put up some defenses and call the train in to clear nearby spawners. Then after the biters are dealt with, tear down the defenses, and either build the intended outpost or continue down the track (or build a turn around to get more shells). I don’t personally feel its useful for a “visit this point, lob off a few shells, visit that point, lob off a few shells” application at all; its good for the initial clear but you want stationary artillery for maintaining the cleared area.

On the other hand, a round-robin setting for trains could be interesting.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by ptx0 »

KeepGridButton wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:42 am
On many occasions I've really wished there was a round robin option for visiting stations of the same name. I'd like to just have an artillery train that stops at all stations named "Art" in a round robin fashion. The only way I've found to do this is really complicated circuit wise and requires wiring all stations together, or building an artillery gun at each station to use as a inventory count, which defeats the purpose of having a train doing the job.
keep thinking, you'll come up with something else.

like a chest to use for inventory count..

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by Serenity »

It's really the same as outpost supply trains in general. You don't constantly send trains around just in case an outpost might be out of repair packs or replacement walls. Instead you only do so when they are actually out of something.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by KeepGridButton »

ptx0 wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:14 am
KeepGridButton wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:42 am
On many occasions I've really wished there was a round robin option for visiting stations of the same name. I'd like to just have an artillery train that stops at all stations named "Art" in a round robin fashion. The only way I've found to do this is really complicated circuit wise and requires wiring all stations together, or building an artillery gun at each station to use as a inventory count, which defeats the purpose of having a train doing the job.
keep thinking, you'll come up with something else.

like a chest to use for inventory count..
The artillery gun method works because it will deplete itself and the station can be enabled based on the ammo running out, so the only stations enabled are those that need a train to replenish them. I'd love to not need a artillery gun at the station. So if you can inform me how a chest is going to fire rounds in the absence of an artillery gun, I'd be interested in you elaborating on your response.
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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by KeepGridButton »

astroshak wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:38 am
but you want stationary artillery
That's not what I want. Artillery emplacements need to fire very rarely, so my personal opinion is it's waste to have them all over the place. I want to have a train visit, because a brief occasional visit is more than enough to clear nests that have crept within range. Isn't part of the fun of this game is being able to solve problems in unique ways that suit our play style?

Why is it everything on this forum is "NO you have to play the game exactly like everyone else!"
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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by Guenni7 »

KeepGridButton wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:49 pm
Why is it everything on this forum is "NO you have to play the game exactly like everyone else!"
I don't think anyone wants to make you play a certain style, just pointing out options how to solve your problem.

I have another suggestion that would work with art-train: Setup a circuit-timer to activate/deactivate the stations (like, count to 1hr, activate train-stop, when train has come in deactivate train stop and reset counter).

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by ptx0 »

KeepGridButton wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:49 pm
...
ah, okey. I misunderstood. I thought you were the OP here, but apparently you've only threadjacked.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by Kyralessa »

KeepGridButton wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:44 pm
ptx0 wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:14 am
keep thinking, you'll come up with something else.

like a chest to use for inventory count..
The artillery gun method works because it will deplete itself and the station can be enabled based on the ammo running out, so the only stations enabled are those that need a train to replenish them. I'd love to not need a artillery gun at the station. So if you can inform me how a chest is going to fire rounds in the absence of an artillery gun, I'd be interested in you elaborating on your response.
I think the idea was that you leave some kind of marker on the station. Off the top of my head, in addition to the locomotive and the artillery wagon, you pull an extra cargo wagon with something cheap, rocks or whatever. At each station you visit, you leave one rock in a chest which is wired to the stop. You circulate until there aren't any stations left without a rock. Then you send another train around to collect all the rocks and start all over.

Or something like that. I haven't tried anything like this, but it seems like it might work, maybe. I think I'll go try it in my game.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by Nosferatu »

You could turn a red signal on when the train has visited.
That will make the train choose a different station if one is available.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by ptx0 »

Nosferatu wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:58 pm
You could turn a red signal on when the train has visited.
That will make the train choose a different station if one is available.
mm yeah you can have each station enable when red = n, having each one look for n+1.

i.e. the first station opens when n=1, the second when n=2.

increment n when a train visits a stop.

when it reaches the max number of stops, reset n to zero, it begins again.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by Kyralessa »

ptx0 wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:14 pm
Nosferatu wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:58 pm
You could turn a red signal on when the train has visited.
That will make the train choose a different station if one is available.
mm yeah you can have each station enable when red = n, having each one look for n+1.

i.e. the first station opens when n=1, the second when n=2.

increment n when a train visits a stop.

when it reaches the max number of stops, reset n to zero, it begins again.
These suggestions seem to assume the station isn't being used for anything else but artillery.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by astroshak »

Kyralessa wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:39 pm
These suggestions seem to assume the station isn't being used for anything else but artillery.
I think thats generally how people set up rail networks. Stations may be intended to service multiple trains, but not multiple “types” of trains. IE - you would not expect one station to offload Iron Ore to one train and to load Crude Oil onto another. Either the trains get consolidated, or go to dedicated stations.

Advantages to having dedicated “Arty Spot” stations are that you can plop an Arty Spot station wherever you need it, and then remove it later on when there are no enemy bases within firing range of it, without compromising other trains, and without having to scour the arty train schedule for that one station you no longer need it to visit. Also, you can ensure that the Arty Spot stations are well defended, something not generally necessary for other stations, especially if you are using dedicated artillery spots to keep biter bases clear.

So, that seems to me to be a rather safe and thought out assumption for people to be making.

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Re: Trains still route to closest station (with limits set)

Post by ptx0 »

astroshak wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:25 pm
Kyralessa wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:39 pm
These suggestions seem to assume the station isn't being used for anything else but artillery.
I think thats generally how people set up rail networks.
i agree, and anyone running into this is probably not the intended target audience for train limits to solve this problem. if you want to have a niche setup, you get to use niche circuits.

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