problem with logistic network and storage looping

Don't know how to use a machine? Looking for efficient setups? Stuck in a mission?
Post Reply
FritzHugo3
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:30 pm
Contact:

problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by FritzHugo3 »

Hi there, have searched houres at google and cant find the right answer.

picture say more than words:
http://bodenseejugend.de/Temporaeres_zu ... neLoop.png

Mod is: "transport drone" but it is working mostly like the logistic robots - so maybe you can help me (have also write in the Mod section from transport drones but i think here are much many people who read this)

E.g. i have 10 factories with salt water as byproduct
the transport drones should transport this byproduct (if it running full, production stops - normal and its not good) and bring it to the left blue input from my mass storrage system (by me its an factorissimo2 hpuse with a lots of tanks)
If other productions need this salt water (e.g. for chlor), other drones from there own blue depot should come and go to my mass storrage output

so far so good - this works

BUT! the drones from my blue mass storrage depo mean mhhh the shortest way to get som salt water are not the 10 factories who come salt water as an byproduct NO! the shortest way to get salt water are the OUTPUT from the same mass Storrage house. And so i have a verry bad loop.

(There are no active/passive tanks. The Mass Storrage Output should be alsways 100% full if enougt in the Storrage tanks and the Input should be always transport the byproducts from the factories becouse the production will stop).


Many thx for youre help.

FritzHugo3
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:30 pm
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by FritzHugo3 »

Nobody have an idear?

mmmPI
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:10 pm
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by mmmPI »

maybe post a save game,

the picture you posted is confusing
TransportDroneLoop.jpg
TransportDroneLoop.jpg (230.22 KiB) Viewed 1117 times
The circled red arrow, there is no road here, transport bots shouldn't be able to do this path.

This would be my go-to solution for avoiding the loop. Having 2 different network. Otherwise if (A) need product available at (B) , bots will take it from B and bring it to A. ( is that what you call your loop ?). It happens i think because B is the closer location where materials needed in A are available. (despite no apparent road ?, maybe you have one a little outside of the picture ?).

For oil, iron, copper and coal,in my personnal game i remember having an "inner network" and an "outer network". There were no road connecting them, the material were brought close to the main base by some bots using the outer network, then transfered via pipes or inserter to a depot that acted like a provider for the inner network. The material available in the inner network were never used to fill-in request for the outer network ( the bad loop ?), this because there was no road connecting them.

The logic i applied is similar to the one with the flying logistic robots, making 2 different network with only 1 tile gap, and using inserter to move item in and out the different networks.

FritzHugo3
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:30 pm
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by FritzHugo3 »

mmmPI wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:13 am
maybe post a save game,

the picture you posted is confusingTransportDroneLoop.jpg

The circled red arrow, there is no road here, transport bots shouldn't be able to do this path.
Of course there is no road becouse my loop problem^^. But there schould be road but first i must have a fix for my problem. (its only a picture). Imaging that there are a road ;-).


Big problem with seperate networks - no way to overcross seperate streets. there are no tunnels like by the belts, no bridge or something else.
For a big Base there is no way to get a complete crossfree configuration with multiplestreetnetworks. Or it loocks not good. If the Mod have seperate Streets or colored lines for seperate Street Networks it would be perfect but there isnt possible in this mod. Specifiec way rules for every depot would be very nice but it isnt in the mod.


mmmPI wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:13 am
Otherwise if (A) need product available at (B) , bots will take it from B and bring it to A. ( is that what you call your loop ?). It happens i think because B is the closer location where materials needed in A are available.
I know why the trucks do this but i dont know how i fix this in the same network. How can i say "A" go everwhere but not to "B"

The regular Factorio network fix this problem with a passive chest, but in transport Drone there are no passive Tanks (passive depos are avaible as seperate extendet mod for items but not for fluids)


Im realy not sure that this pictures shows more than my first, but you want a zoomed out
This work
http://bodenseejugend.de/Temporaeres_zu ... eLoop1.png

This stops the complete base. How i can forbit a request chest for a one specifiec red "give" chest (dont know the english names)
http://bodenseejugend.de/Temporaeres_zu ... eLoop2.png

Emagin Factorio have no passive chest, how you prevent this storage loops?



mmmPI wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:13 am
For oil, iron, copper and coal,in my personnal game i remember having an "inner network" and an "outer network". There were no road connecting them, the material were brought close to the main base by some bots using the outer network, then transfered via pipes or inserter to a depot that acted like a provider for the inner network. The material available in the inner network were never used to fill-in request for the outer network ( the bad loop ?), this because there was no road connecting them.

The logic i applied is similar to the one with the flying logistic robots, making 2 different network with only 1 tile gap, and using inserter to move item in and out the different networks.
this sounds to me like mostly vanila. I have 20 difference ores, more than 100 difference fluids and many many more stuff in my pack. This is complete unpracticable for me and my base and my visions for a gigabase (transport Drone base are only a middle step for the realy big trainsystem but im at a island and must production trillians of landfill first ;-) ). The flying bots have this problem not becouse the flying bots have pasive chest and cant habndle fluids and to use drums are complete not my way for me. And i complete didnt want to use the flying drones. For me they are complete boring and agly for the base. I will never have a mall oder some else with this flying drones.

mmmPI
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:10 pm
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by mmmPI »

FritzHugo3 wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:58 pm
The regular Factorio network fix this problem with a passive chest, but in transport Drone there are no passive Tanks (passive depos are avaible as seperate extendet mod for items but not for fluids)
use barrels, and passive depos then ;) ?

FritzHugo3
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:30 pm
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by FritzHugo3 »

mmmPI wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:13 pm
FritzHugo3 wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:58 pm
The regular Factorio network fix this problem with a passive chest, but in transport Drone there are no passive Tanks (passive depos are avaible as seperate extendet mod for items but not for fluids)
use barrels, and passive depos then ;) ?
In my last post:
FritzHugo3 wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:58 pm
The flying bots have this problem not becouse the flying bots have pasive chest and cant habndle fluids and to use drums are complete not my way for me.
It makes no sense to make drums and two houses right side i need the fluid back. And sure i dont use pipes. This little problem corrupted my hole little design and destroied the look for my base ^^.

But so there are now way i must outsorce the mass storage for fluids with trains or ships - so frustraition.


Its a so simple logic problem and the game dont give us a way to set options for it.
I cant understand that the hole logistic network with all the logical math programnming are not able to set a priority for bots. This is a so regular important think for logistic networks. There is realy no way to say to a Network-chest dont interact with that specifiec other chest or set priorities? To say go first this chest after this go second chest after this go third chest.

Im locking three days at this point and cant continiu the gameplay - Houres work for waste
Any way, if nothing work - eat biscuit - i must eat many biscuits ^^.
So a great game and than there are no way for a simple problem. dam.


The only way i realy see are complete outsorcing fluids per ship/train - this is realy not planed for my closest big base. It will be so agly.
My last chance are the modder who i have write and ask him for a new pasive tank.


Thx. for trying to help here.

mergele
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:45 am
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by mergele »

I'll reiterate to make sure I understand your problem:
You have salt water produced that you want to be moved away from the production facility to a storage area, and from there distributed to the consumers?
Isn't that just simply a case of a active provider - storage chest - requester chest chain?

astroshak
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 9:59 am
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by astroshak »

The only advice I can offer is ...

Make sure that the Depot Demand and Depot Supply are NOT on the same road network.

That, or stop using a Depot at all. I admit that some mods can make people laugh at this, but you really don’t want to be storing much of anything, you want to be using it almost as soon as it is created. The exception to the lack of storage is when gathering for bulk transport.

If there is a machine making something as a byproduct, ship that product to something that can use it. If you need to supplement the byproduct production with another machine (or set of machines) that make it as a main product, then do so; but be sure to combine the producers output or prioritize the machines making it as a byproduct so that their main product does not stop.

Now, I don’t know which (other) mods you’re using. You’re basically having a Buffer Chest requesting 200 AP Ammo, a stack inserter putting the AP Ammo from the Buffer to an Active Provider, and bots running back and forth. Split those networks up, or stop using a central storage. That’s my advice.

User avatar
valneq
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:43 am
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by valneq »

You appear to be using Angel's mods. Why don't you make use of the overflow valve to only void the liquids that you have in excess?
You can always void the excess at the point where you generate the by-product. Only put stuff on the logistic network that is meant for consumption by other locations.

san
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:22 am
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by san »

You can enable or disable those depots with the transport depot writer based on circuit (and i guess logistic) conditions. I don't know if there's an easy solution for you with this way. The way it seems to work if you use the road network reader as well (in sort of a loop circuit condition), that which are in transit are not counted, but i have to recheck that.
I have this sort of contraption working which enables the depots if there's low general availability, though i do not have a construction, where the input is the output as well.

FritzHugo3
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:30 pm
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by FritzHugo3 »

valneq wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:58 am
You appear to be using Angel's mods. Why don't you make use of the overflow valve to only void the liquids that you have in excess?
You can always void the excess at the point where you generate the by-product. Only put stuff on the logistic network that is meant for consumption by other locations.
You can see it on the first picture at my first post left top - there are voids for overflow but i need the stuff and cant waste this all materials. And this are totaly not the point smile. The point are the feedback loop. (yes two difference networks have that problem not but realy factorio cant handle it in a other way? Cant understand it. So many for programming Stuff but this dont go)

I want a base with large storages becouse nothing are waste. The waste from the one are the recoure in the future from a other production ;-).
You can not balanced a hole base 100% but near by if you have the right technologies and setups - for this you need a central storrage.

(Its not a problem from salt water, its a generaly problem for all over 100 fluids ;-). Saltwater are bearable to waste but not the expensive stuff).
I will see


___
Thx san for yore time.


___
The modder for the passive depot has answered and i will try his other mod DSU, he say there are also tanks in the mod who can eventually handle it. I just check it and than if its not the right fpor me - i have no big choise and i have multiple networks - i will hate it but what else.
Its not for ever only just up i have enougth space for my mostly beltles trainbase - there arent the problems with the central storrages becouse every train has only two explizit waypoints to handle. I will see what say the performance for more than thausend trains smile.


EDIT: so i have testet the DSU - cost 4.000 Units for 4 different sciensepacks and 60 seconds per single process to research - its a little to expensive for me now *gasp* (what you see at the zoomed out picture are - (per house line from left to right) only to get one single full red belt for iron, copper... smile - more than 200 buildings per metal) - so i think i could researche this in one or two month if i have build my base bigger or some else ;-).

__
Ok. i planed now i make a seperate Island, there are for realy all recource from the (ore, screw, rocketfuel, all fluids...) one or more big mass Storrage house and all products goes with the Ship there and all recources what a production block need will transfer from this central storage island to the produktion block at the other islands. This is not exactly what i want bevore this loop problem i have saw but any way.
And if i get more landfill i can begin to make my trainbase in two, three month or so.




Dear Factorio Devs. Please make it mable, that we have an option for the logistic/Circuit that we can unvisible single Chests for specific networks (black/whitelist + prioritys). That the player are must use seperate networks to handle this loops are realy a shame.

User avatar
valneq
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:43 am
Contact:

Re: problem with logistic network and storage looping

Post by valneq »

I recently finished a playthrough with Angel's + Bob's mods which ended in a rocket.
In that playthrough I did not void anything. Consequently, you can balance your factory to 100%. I did it.

So if you don't want to clarify anything, don't do it. If you don't have this intermediate clarification station with both supply and demand depots, you don't get a loop.

Post Reply

Return to “Gameplay Help”