[0/17.x] Fluids, how do they even work?

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ShneekeyTheLost
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[0/17.x] Fluids, how do they even work?

Post by ShneekeyTheLost »

Before I begin, I should probably start with where I've already tried to find the answers to my questions.

The Wiki Page concerning the fluid system is still referencing the 0.15/0.16 system, and is no longer accurate. The additionally linked 'see also' articles also refer to the previous rather than the current system. In essence, the whole page needs to be (eventually) redone. This is not intended to be a slight on the Wiki team, they've had their hands full trying to update everything.

I looked over the Friday Facts entry that went over the basic logic for the new system, but it was mostly couched in general terms, rather than the specifics I'm looking for.

My Google-Fu has failed to find any resource that specifically references the 1.17 'new' fluid mechanic systems. Most of the results that came up refer to the previous mechanics which are no longer applicable.

With all that out of the way...

The Friday Facts indicated that the underground pipes no longer give their previous advantage of only counting as two pipes instead of however long it actually is, which means you're probably going to be needing more pumps to maintain a throughput over distance if you are piping, say, oil or water longer distances.

Has anyone discovered the 'sweet spot' or at least an efficient ratio of distance to pumps for the various liquids, especially crude oil and its byproducts?

I'm trying to figure out if I should be pumping my crude a distance to my refinery to process on-site within my factory area, or if I should be refining on-site and pumping the results. Part of this is going to be the fluidity of, say, petroleum gas vs oil.

Heavy Oil is either broken down into Light Oil or turned into Lubricant. I figure that can be done on-site, if Lubricant is a more efficient fluid to pump.

Light Oil is used to make Solid Fuel for the research, how much faster does it flow than crude and is it better to pump it separate to my research production area?

Petroleum Gas, I'm assuming, flows much further than any of the above, but by how much, what distance per pump should I be using to maintain a consistent throughput? Is it going to be easier to pump the gas to my sulphur and plastic production hub, or should I build my sulphur and plastic/battery production on-site?

Basically... everything about fluids flowing through pipes is different, and I can't seem to find any resources giving me actual numbers to crunch that refer to the new system. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

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Re: [0/17.x] Fluids, how do they even work?

Post by Bilka »

ShneekeyTheLost wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:39 pm
The Wiki Page concerning the fluid system is still referencing the 0.15/0.16 system, and is no longer accurate. The additionally linked 'see also' articles also refer to the previous rather than the current system. In essence, the whole page needs to be (eventually) redone. This is not intended to be a slight on the Wiki team, they've had their hands full trying to update everything.
The 0.17 system is the 0.15/0.16 system. It's still the same. Only thing that changed is that pumps have a bug so they are a little worse, but the page is updated for that. This means that the wiki page is up to date and can be relied on for information.
I'm an admin over at https://wiki.factorio.com. Feel free to contact me if there's anything wrong (or right) with it.

ShneekeyTheLost
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Re: [0/17.x] Fluids, how do they even work?

Post by ShneekeyTheLost »

Bilka wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:40 pm
ShneekeyTheLost wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:39 pm
The Wiki Page concerning the fluid system is still referencing the 0.15/0.16 system, and is no longer accurate. The additionally linked 'see also' articles also refer to the previous rather than the current system. In essence, the whole page needs to be (eventually) redone. This is not intended to be a slight on the Wiki team, they've had their hands full trying to update everything.
The 0.17 system is the 0.15/0.16 system. It's still the same. Only thing that changed is that pumps have a bug so they are a little worse, but the page is updated for that. This means that the wiki page is up to date and can be relied on for information.
So you are basically saying that the changes to different fluids flowing at different rates, and that underground pipes no longer only count as two pipes instead of its full length as described in the Friday Facts are features that were never implemented?

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Re: [0/17.x] Fluids, how do they even work?

Post by Bilka »

ShneekeyTheLost wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:56 pm
So you are basically saying that the changes to different fluids flowing at different rates, and that underground pipes no longer only count as two pipes instead of its full length as described in the Friday Facts are features that were never implemented?
Yes. Seems like you missed quite a bunch of FFFs. From FFF 312:
https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-312 wrote:As for the fluid algorithm, V453000 and Twinsen found some issues with waves on a macro scale, and because it was right before releasing the 0.17 experimental, we decided to hold it off on it for the time being
I'm an admin over at https://wiki.factorio.com. Feel free to contact me if there's anything wrong (or right) with it.

ShneekeyTheLost
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Re: [0/17.x] Fluids, how do they even work?

Post by ShneekeyTheLost »

Well then, thank you for clearing that up. Been a while since I've done Factorio, wanted to try out the new systems, and kept getting conflicting information about what was, or was not, actually implemented.

Thanks for clearing that up!

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Re: [0/17.x] Fluids, how do they even work?

Post by coppercoil »

ShneekeyTheLost wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:21 pm
Well then, thank you for clearing that up. Been a while since I've done Factorio, wanted to try out the new systems [..]
I think there's high probability that new fluid system will be released one day, thereby removing underground pipe benefits. If someone has built the base based on current throughput limits, it may be a breaking change. So, I’m going to calculate required throughput (i.e. distance between pumps) by regular pipes, plus spare coefficient for an unknown fluid rate change. If you’re building long-lasting base, you should be prepared :)

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