0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Don't know how to use a machine? Looking for efficient setups? Stuck in a mission?
Post Reply
zOldBulldog
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm
Contact:

0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by zOldBulldog »

I am missing some important point of Oil Processing. I hope someone can enlighten me as to the proper way of doing it.
My gut tells me that I need to add some pumps with logic conditions.

I should probably mention that I am fairly new and to help me learn on my first run-through I am using Nilaus' blueprints, from the "Base in a Book" series. It is quite possible that I did something wrong while following it.

The problems I experienced:
  • First problem happened after Basic Oil Processing and I started producing plastic. I run out of Petroleum Gdss even though I had an ample oil supply. The problem was full tanks of everything else. As a band-aid I added storage tanks until I could produce enough science to unlock Advanced Oil Processing and started cracking. That seemed to work, for quite a while.
  • The second problem happened later when I run out of Lubricant used to make engines for Purple Science. This time I have full Petroleum gas tanks, while everything else is fairly low and Lubricant tanks have 5k out of 25k. The lubricant line runs dry partly down the bus.
Looking at the Oil processing plant:
  • I see that the storage tanks (originally 2 tanks of 25K) all have a Read Contents condition.
  • I see a Lubricant pump from the Heavy Oil to Lubricant chemical plants output going to the Lubricant storage tanks, activates when the Lubricant level is less than 10K.
  • I see a Heavy Oil pump from the Heavy Oil to Lubricant chemical plants input going to the Heavy Oil to Light Oil chemical plants, activates when the Lubricant level is more than 10K. Logical, prioritizes Light Oil only when there is a decent supply of Lubricant on storage.
  • I see no pump or condition to limit cracking of Light Oil to Petroleum Gas.
Questions:
  • From what I see, it seems that the design of Oil Processing is intended to be the way to make players learn about circuits. If you don't have the right logic in place, your whole plant will shut down due to overproduction of one fluid, filling the tanks and stopping the ability to process anything else. Is that correct? Or is there a way to produce every fluid in the quantities needed at any moment without circuits?
  • Can someone recommend a design (and necessary circuit logic) that will work well, both for Basic Oil Processing as well as Advanced Oil Processing, never shutting down the processing of Crude into the other products so long as there is demand for at least one product?
Things I am considering doing. Please warn me if they sound stupid or counterproductive.
  • I am planning to place a pump at the bus start, to pressurize each bus fluid, and possibly empty the tanks. It bugs me that having 5k on the storage tanks it would go to zero down the line. I might also add pumps in the bus itself to boost the local pressure.
  • I am planning to remove the temporary tanks I placed when I was limited to Basic Oil Processing and setup an array of buffer storage tanks with an input pump that activates/fills when the initial storage tanks have more than 20k, and output pump that activates when the initial storage tanks have less than 20k.
I hope that was clear and makes sense. Thanks for your help in advance.

User avatar
DaveMcW
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 3700
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 11:06 am
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by DaveMcW »

There is always a solution: make solid fuel out of the product you have too much of. You will need lots of solid fuel eventually, just build chests to store it for now.

For bonus points, put a pump on the solid fuel plant so it only works when the storage tank is almost full.

urza99814
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:57 am
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by urza99814 »

IMO, not having circuits on cracking is your problem.

I've never built a base that ran out of any oil product except petroleum. If you don't have enough heavy oil, either you're doing something that uses an absurd amount of lube (are you building millions of blue belts or something?) or it's just all getting cracked too fast.

I usually build 2-3 storage tanks each for heavy/light/petroleum. If heavy oil is >20k in one tank, enable a pump to crack heavy to light. Same for light... If it's over 20k, start cracking. If they still fill up, you just need more chem plants for cracking. If somehow you still end up with too much petroleum, configure it to start turning that into solid fuel once it hits 20k too, since that's about all you can do with it.

zOldBulldog
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by zOldBulldog »

Update: I made some changes and added quite a bit of circuit logic. Better but still not enough. Petroleum production is excessive and Lubricant production sputters trying to make Purple Science for research.

1) @urza:
- There were some circuits from Nilaus' blueprint, just not many. Either I messed up implementing the blueprint, or it is based on some assumptions about what you might be consuming at the moment.
- Yes, I do seem to be using a lot of Lubricant at the moment. I have completed all research up to Blue, and I am currently doing the Purple based research. That seems to consume a ton of lubricant (for engines).
- I seem to be massively overproducing Petroleum. One thing I noticed is that the blueprint directly piped light oil into the cracking inputs. I modified that to go to the storage tanks first, and I put pumps to only allow Light Oil cracking if they contain 'more than 10k Light Oil' and 'less than 19k Petroleum'. So, even just the Oil Refinery's Petroleum with no cracking at all still seems to be too much and makes production sputter. But at least it now moves forward some.
2) @DaveMcW:
- The solid fuel idea might be good, but my oil fields are kind of limited and far away... so I am not sure I should waste any crude. On the other hand there is a lot of Uranium ore and I was planning to go that route once I could. Of course... this is my first run through and I have not reached the point of needing solid fuel or uranium, so my assumptions are probably wrong.

The following is what I did and seems to "sort of work". It still overproduces Petroleum and sputters, but it seems to be "sort of functioning".

- 2 primary tanks each for crude, petroleum, light, heavy and lubricant.
- 6 overflow tanks each for petroleum, light, heavy and lubricant.
- 8 Oil Refineries, fed directly from the input pumps and the primary crude tanks, plus water from the lake. They run continuously *if* the is crude at the source and none of the outputs fill up. This is the main cause of my problem... Petroleum is filling up and what consumes it - so far - isn't enough.
- 7 Light to Petroleum cracking chemical plants. They only activate if (1) I have more than 10K of Light Oil to crack AND (2) less than 19K of Petroleum in the primary tanks.
- 2 Heavy to Lubricant chemical plants. They only activate if I have (1) more than 10K Heavy Oil and less than 10K Lubricant in the primary tanks.
- 2 Heavy to Light cracking chemical plants. They only activate if I have (1) more than 10K Lubricant and less than 19K Light in the primary tanks.

- Overflow tanks get filled ONLY if the source primary tanks are over 20K.
- Overflow tanks feed the back end of the corresponding primary tanks, ONLY if the source primary tanks are under 9K.

Comsumption:
- Petroleum is used to generate plastic. This line is fully backed up to its factory.
- Lubricant is used to generate a stock of Blue Belts, Underground Belts and Splitters. Only underground belts are still being produced at this moment. Soon will be done.
- Plastic is used to make Red Circuits.
- Red circuits were used to produce assembling machine 3. Idle now.
- Red circuits are used to produce Blue Science. Being used a bit, but mostly backed up at this point.
- Lubricant is being drawn to produce engines for Purple Science. This seems to be the main consumption of Lubricant at the moment. Engine production is struggling. All other supplies for Engine production are heavily backed up all the way to their sources and lubricant level is near 0, so the issue is lubricant supply.
- Red circuits are consumed to make electric furnaces for Purple Science. Again, plenty of supply with red circuits backed up all the way to its factory.
- ** That's it, no other consumption of oil products or their derivatives.

Fluid levels in the storage tanks after letting it stabilize from the changes I made:

PRIMARY tanks
- Crude: 24k. Nicely full from the supply trains.
- Petroleum: 24k. This is my problem.
- Light oil: 10k. Clearly the cracking limit is working :)
- Heavy oil: 5k. Not sure how to interpret this. But seems OK since currently have no usage of Heavy.
- Lubricant: Between 0 and 1k. I do seem to be continuously producing, so that's something, but I am clearly not producing enough for my consumption due to the oversupply of Petroleum.

OVERFLOW tanks
- Petroleum: 25k. Yep, the source of my problem. Even with 7 storage tanks. I think I'll add more for now as a band-aid, since I have the space, and make solid fuel if I must.
- Lubricant: 0k.
- Heavy: 0k.
- Light: 9K and climbing slowly.

And this is the blueprint of my Oil Processing setup (first time I paste a blueprint, I hope this is fine):

Code: Select all

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

Zavian
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1641
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:57 am
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by Zavian »

Short answer is your setup sounds over engineered. Keep it simple and just circuit control cracking.

You probably don't need any tanks storing lube. What is in the pipe will normally be enough of a buffer, just set the lube plant to always run. It will shut itself down when the pipe is full. The only time you need a tank of lube is if you want to transport lube by rail-tanker, or want the ability to make a lot of blue belts or electric engines whilst science is off.

Personally I normally have only one tank of heavy and one tank of light. (I'll also have some tanks of crude at the refinery unload station). I set lube to always be made, (it'll stop when it's output is full), heavy to light oil cracking to run if there is more than say 15k heavy oil, and light to petrol cracking if there is more than about 15k light. If science is off that layout can still turn the 15k of heavy into 15k of lube, if I need lube for belts or engines. (If you think you will need more than 15k lube whilst science is off then you could add a tank of lube). If science is running petrol and plastic will be in way higher demand than lube.

There is one theoretical issue with the setup I have described above. I've never seen it happen, but in theory it is possible. However it shouldn't cause any actual problems. If your refinery layout is such that plastic and sulphur production tends to use the petrol output of the refineries rather than the petrol output of the cracking plants, you might end up with a situation where the cracking plants won't run because their petrol output is full. But any such problem should be self limiting. Once the refineries can no longer output light oil they will shutdown, and the cracking plants will be able to output petrol again. I've never seen this happen, but it is possible that your light oil tank will end up spending most of the time at 25k despite cracking switching on at 15k.

Also you will eventually need solid-fuel for stuff that it sounds like you haven't researched yet. (I'm deliberately being vague because I don't want to mention anything that might be considered a spoiler, but you can check the tech tree, and find the recipes there).

inick
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:36 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by inick »

As I read the OP post, I couldn't help but repeatedly say "different people have different playstyles"

Understanding this fundamental fact can and very might well be the reason why Base in a Book by another player may not be what you're needing or able to use. I will HAPPILY admit that any players I see who play with a "buffer chest" style of play will eventually infuriate me. What you're doing with a buffer chest (also means storage tanks) is keeping product but not using it. Some may say "for a surge" later on in gameplay. I rebuttal that with the fact that if you are relying on a buffer to satisfy a resource need, you're not making enough resources! This game scales so well that to limit your production seems silly. Product sitting in a chest was energy, product, and time spent that isn't being consumed. A waste (IMHO).

As a response to this, and possibly even to the OP - the oil is very nasty because it's a 1:3 (basic) or 1:6 ratio, one input into 6(? lost count) various outputs. The only thing I find to rely on to keep oil running is the solid fuel chemical plants. If you have excess product (at the end of a pipe), turn it into solid fuel, use it as fuel for your non-electric furnaces, use it later for rocket fuel, use it for fuel in your trains, cars, and tanks.. This may be a slight buffer chest thing, but I don't see any other way around it.

You will have to find your own eureka moment, but I hesitate to use any storage tank in base. If I use a buffer chest, it's a chest of maybe.. 1 stack of something. that if I am in a stinking pinch and need SOMETHING, I have SOME of said product. The rest continues on the belt and gets used in the factory.

Sorry for the ramble, and indirect answer. The game offers many ways to solve a problem, but the solution may not be a blueprint from someone else's work.

zOldBulldog
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by zOldBulldog »

Some of the replies are a bit confusing because they assume "I am buffering fluids to use later". That is not the case at all. I would be the happiest person if I could just produce while only consuming what I need.

The issue is that unless I draw away the fluids I don't need then the refinery stops processing crude, and I don't get the one output I need most at a given moment. Right now I'd like to produced Lubricant at full capacity, but I can't unless I store, consume (or maybe burn? man, that's wasteful) the rest of the products somewhere or find a use for them.

Maybe the crude refining shutting down when there is no place to put the Petroleum is a new 0.16 thing that didn't happen before. I don't know.

In any case,

1) It sounds like the solution for "overproduction of Petroleum shutting down my refinery" is to make solid fuel. I don't need it now, but I can use it later when it becomes essential.

2) Is there something else that is essential that I can make with Light oil (besides cracking it and making even more solid fuel)?

fiery_salmon
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:20 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by fiery_salmon »

zOldBulldog wrote:I can use it later when it becomes essential.
It can be used later to make rocket fuel and is a good fuel for locomotives (speed boost), may be used to power furnaces/steam engines.

Zavian
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1641
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:57 am
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by Zavian »

Light oil can also be turned into solid fuel. (In fact the light oil to solid fuel recipe is a more efficient way to make solid fuel because it requires less crude than making solid fuel from petrol).

At this stage of the game science should normally be consuming enough plastic that you shouldn't have the problems you are reporting with lube, unless you are cracking too much heavy to light, and not leaving enough heavy to make lube. But I'm guessing you have science switched off. (Seriously turn it on, pick any research that needs blue and/or purple flasks. As long as science is ticking over science should be consuming petrol faster than science is consuming lube. Next make absolutely sure that you aren't cracking any heavy to light, at least until you get your lube:petrol stockpile ratio to a point where you are happy with it. Remove some pipes or some power poles if necessary.

If the setup you mentioned above is still your current settings, then you wont make any lube until heavy is over 10k. If you still have 2 tanks of heavy at 5k each, then you will need to make another 10k of heavy before you will make any lube. That means your refineries need to make another 55k of petrol (assuming they are running advanced oil processing). You could temporarily switch the refineries back to basic oil processing, which will produce more heavy oil and less petrol. But just setting lube to be made once heavy is over 1k, (or even setting lube to be made if you have more heavy than lube), and then starting science running should be enough. Each purple flask needs 50 petrol and 7.5 lube (equal to 7.5 heavy). Blue science needs another 20 petrol per flask. So running science will use petrol faster than lube. (Advanced oil processing plus cracking light to petrol makes 10 heavy oil for every 85 petrol or a 1:8.5 ratio. One blue flask and one purple flask eat 7.5 lube and 70 petrol or a 1:9.333 ratio).

Whilst I would normally only build one heavy and one light tank, that is personal preference. I do understand that what I consider excessive tanks were your way of attempting to work around a problem. (But note adding more tanks doesn't actually solve that sort of problem, it just enables you to keep things running until you get around to implementing a proper solution).

I'm not familiar with Nilaus's blueprints, but I think a refinery with no tanks should be workable, provided you pay attention to the order fluids flow past chem plants. But a tankless refinery has no storage, and can only make lube when something is consuming petrol. (You also need either tanks or something consuming heavy and light oil during the basic oil processing stage of the game).

JimBarracus
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:14 am
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by JimBarracus »

The optimum ratio for advanced oil processing is:
8 refineries
1 heavy oil cracking
7 light oil cracking

build it in a way where lubricant production has the priority and you should have no issues with a stalling production anymore

SpeedDaemon
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 3:31 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by SpeedDaemon »

Here's the simplest logic I've come up with (and use for all of my factories) that keeps oil from getting stuck:

For this to work, your setup needs to be designed with the following:
- Refinery output must go directly to storage
- Cracking output must go directly to storage
- Cracking input and consumers must take from storage

Without Adv. Oil Processing:
Set up these combinators:
- If heavy storage is nearly empty, output 1 on A (or whatever signal you want to use)
- If light storage is nearly empty, output 1 on A
- If PG storage is nearly empty, output 1 on A

Set up three sets of solid fuel production:
- If A > 0 (meaning you're running out of one or more fractions), then
-- If heavy storage is nearly full, pump heavy oil to SF production
-- If light storage is nearly full, pump light oil to SF production
-- If PG storage is nearly full, pump PG to SF production

With Adv. Oil Processing:
1. If stored heavy oil > stored light oil: crack heavy to light
2. If stored light oil > stored petroleum: crack light to PG
3. If stored PG is nearly full, and stored heavy is nearly empty: make solid fuel out of PG
That's all you need - should never shut down unless it can do so without starving something of resources.

gsezz
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:23 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by gsezz »

2. If stored light oil > stored petroleum: crack light to PG
3. If stored PG is nearly full, and stored heavy is nearly empty: make solid fuel out of PG
This would always crack light to PG, and then make solid fuel out of it, which is horribly inefficient. You are basically making solid fuel from every drop of cured oil your refineries can take in.
"One product > another" always wastes oil. Only crack when you have to. (When storage is nearly full)

1. make lubricant from heavy oil
2. if heavy oil nearly full > crack to light oil.
3. make solid fuel from light oil.
4. if light oil nearly full > crack to PG.
5. if PG nearly full > make solid fuel from PG.
Make sure the solid fuel from PG has a higher priority on the belt than the solid fuel from light oil. (sideloading light oil, ....)
This prefers efficient solid fuel from light oil and disposes overproduction by cracking when needed.

Also I tend to keep a bigger storage for light oil, since I'm using it for flame towers in my outposts.

fiery_salmon
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:20 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by fiery_salmon »

You would prefer to crack if petroleum is needed more than solid fuel (plastics...).

zOldBulldog
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by zOldBulldog »

UPDATE:. Problem solved and post-mortem.

I think that what happened was due to a series of events:
- Since this is my first run through I am not progressing at the normal pace. I spend a lot of time figuring things out and tweaking my designs.
- I also have a pretty effective research setup. Combined with my slowness, it results in me completing one research before starting the next one. By the time this problem happened I was done with all research before Purple.
- Purple science consumes a lot of lubricant in the engines it requires.
- I was behind in creating some shops that consume a lot of plastic and red circuits.

How I solved the problem:
- I did not need to start making solid fuel this early. Holding that idea in reserve.
- I built the High Tech and Nuclear production lines in my mall, and started battery production. Those things consumed enough plastic and red circuits to eliminate my Petroleum over production issues.
- The oil processing plant is now working as desired. All overflow tanks are empty (except light that is around half full and I might use for flamethrowers or solid fuel), primary tanks are at desirable levels, and the oil refinery no longer stops from lack of where to put output products.

Conclusion:
- In most cases this setup should be adequate. It stops all cracking to Light and Petroleum, and cracks Heavy to Lubricant when appropriate.
- At this point I could remove the overflow tanks. But I think I want to keep at least one per fluid and empty space for more just in case I again find myself in a similar situation (maybe after I finish Yellow research? But I doubt it as most mid-late game stuff should consume red circuits and thus Petroleum) and need to siphon off some oil products temporarily to keep the refinery running full speed until I increase consumption again.
- This design still has a weakness when Lubricant demand outpaces Petroleum demand. Unfortunately I don't see any way to further increase Lubricant production without something consuming enough Petroleum.
- I want to simplify and clean up the design, maybe as a self contained rail-connected unit (no pipes in/out).

SpeedDaemon
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 3:31 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by SpeedDaemon »

gsezz wrote:
2. If stored light oil > stored petroleum: crack light to PG
3. If stored PG is nearly full, and stored heavy is nearly empty: make solid fuel out of PG
This would always crack light to PG, and then make solid fuel out of it, which is horribly inefficient. You are basically making solid fuel from every drop of cured oil your refineries can take in.
"One product > another" always wastes oil. Only crack when you have to. (When storage is nearly full)
That setup only makes SF out of PG if it's running out of light or heavy AND PG is already full (and would clog up the refineries if it's not dealt with). If I need to manufacture solid fuel for something, I use light. The only time I use PG is if the factory would shut down if I didn't.

If light oil is less than heavy, it means that I'm using light faster than heavy, and I will need to crack anyway or suffer a shutdown when heavy fills up and light is empty. Might as well start immediately (unless you have massive amounts of buffer storage, which I normally don't bother with). The logic above simplifies everything enormously.

bobucles
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1669
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:37 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.16 Oil processing stops when output tanks fill up

Post by bobucles »

I have full Petroleum gas tanks,
Ya done goofed. You should NEVER have full petroleum tanks. The amount of petrol you need for red circuits alone demand oil cracking.
- This design still has a weakness when Lubricant demand outpaces Petroleum demand. Unfortunately I don't see any way to further increase Lubricant production without something consuming enough Petroleum.
This is a rare concern because petroleum and light oil demand vastly outpace heavy oil demand. One storage tank full of lubricant will take you to the rocket. If you have a serious need for heavy oil after that point, look into coal liquefaction. It generates a huge amount of heavy oil, especially when productivity modules get involved.

Automatic oil cracking is the easiest thing in the world(it only took me 3 tries!). Just set up a few pumps, use a few wires, and connect the pipes to your cracking machines. Pretty simple.
auto cracking.jpg
auto cracking.jpg (289.59 KiB) Viewed 12092 times

Post Reply

Return to “Gameplay Help”