[0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

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Neemys
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[0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Neemys »

Hello

I have that problem since early in 0.16. I waited for the belt problem in general to be fixed and as I understand it should be for now.

I feed the wiki's 6 to 3 balancer with 12 stack inserter making the 6 input belt full but the output have gap.

The same balancer feeded with 6 full belt using creative mode matter source make no gap.

Here some screen to illustrate :
Left setup have gap, the right one don't
Left setup have gap, the right one don't
setup1.jpg (432.9 KiB) Viewed 2546 times
Same setup with belt debug on
Same setup with belt debug on
setup_with_belt_debug.jpg (417.66 KiB) Viewed 2546 times
I try waiting for the belt to be full before adding the matter void but the gaps still appear.

I don't understand why gaps appear since the 6 input belt are full in both setup.

The problem don't appear with red or yellow belt.

Is there something I could do to make the left setup not having gap ?


Edit : input must be taken equally as long as both side of output belt are used equally
Last edited by Neemys on Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by impetus maximus »

get rid of the loopty loops. if you go 12 to 6 to 3 you will have no gaps.

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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Neemys »

Oh, I forgot to mention : input must be taken equally as long as both side of output belt are used equally (train unloader).

Getting rid of the top loop create two problem :
  • Input are taken inequally
  • Still Gap because only 1 belt and a half go to the rigth splitter.
setup no loop.jpg
setup no loop.jpg (237.92 KiB) Viewed 2511 times
Still thanks for looking into the problem.


What's really bothering me is this balancer in itself don't create gap, is because it's feed differently (but still with full belt) that gaps appear....
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Neemys »

I made a save to reproduce the issue using only vanilla 0.16.30 and made a bug report. We will see what devs say about it.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=58725
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Manron »

try setting the splitters to output priority right belt, see if that helps. or remove the splitters altogether, they are not needed anyway, are they?

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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by impetus maximus »

Manron wrote:or remove the splitters altogether, they are not needed anyway, are they?
that is what i suggested. [edit] the excess ones anyway.
no_loop.png
no_loop.png (171.21 KiB) Viewed 2458 times

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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Neemys »

Output belt can be used unevenly and I still want an even use of all input belt (to minimize train time at station).
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Manron »

if you put a 3x3 balancer after what impetus maximus sugested you will get a perfectly balanced input/output.

depending on your setup it may even suffice to put two splitters in the 3-lane bus connecting 1 to 2 and 2 to 3.

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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Neemys »

Manron wrote:if you put a 3x3 balancer after what impetus maximus sugested you will get a perfectly balanced input/output.

depending on your setup it may even suffice to put two splitters in the 3-lane bus connecting 1 to 2 and 2 to 3.
No it still don't work,
3x3.jpg
3x3.jpg (115.83 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
but as a dev answer in my bug report. The culprit is the presence of a loop. (I still don't know why there is no problem with loader). I must find a way to balance without loop, I will need to work with another number of lane or some bigger balancer.

Lots of balancer seem broken now.....
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by namek »

That's why I stopped playing 0.15, seems it's getting only worse. Total immersion killer. Won't play this game until they fix it.
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Neemys »

namek wrote:That's why I stopped playing 0.15, seems it's getting only worse. Total immersion killer. Won't play this game until they fix it.
They won't see my bug report on the issue they move it to "won't fix"
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Neemys »

Playing a bit tonight trying to find a better solution than using combinator. Found two working solution a modified 4x4 balancer or using a 6x4 balancer without using one output belt.
2 working solution
2 working solution
solution 2.jpg (453.84 KiB) Viewed 2332 times
One downside, the footprint is a bit bigger (and more belt = less ups). Will try to reduce the footprint next time I can play. The 4x4 modified seem a good candidate.

Just for the sake of it, I tried using 6x6 balancer with 24 inserter. With no surprise the problem is still here only on inserter fed setup.
Even bigger the problem is still the same.....
Even bigger the problem is still the same.....
again....jpg (252.76 KiB) Viewed 2333 times
A bit disapointing, the belt optimization for UPS is great but this make all my previous unloading not working like they should..... and break lots of balancers with the only solution to have them bigger.
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Neemys »

Spend some time to make my unloader using the modified 4x4 balancer. Should works great but depending on input arrival order, gap will appear making it unusable in my case because they could be short time with no material in input. Solution found is making the two central belt having priority. No problem under full load, but when not full, the third belt will have trouble getting resources.
even_better_with_priority.jpg
even_better_with_priority.jpg (364.02 KiB) Viewed 2309 times
The way I will use it as unloader there will be either full resources or none at all so thats works for me. I will install it in some of my bases seeing how it works under real condition.
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by namek »

I'm glad You can play this game. I can't anymore, seems like dev team has changed or they changed their priorities. Or maybe they aren't good enough to fix simple stuff. Well, it's sad really.
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by impetus maximus »

namek wrote:Can't download a mod from mods.factorio.com ? or want to mirror it somewhere else? I'll upload somewhere or directly send them to You.
so you feel it's justifiable to pirate mods for people because you don't agree with game mechanics? :roll:

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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by namek »

impetus maximus wrote:
namek wrote:Can't download a mod from mods.factorio.com ? or want to mirror it somewhere else? I'll upload somewhere or directly send them to You.
so you feel it's justifiable to pirate mods for people because you don't agree with game mechanics? :roll:
First I don't pirate mods and I live in a place where "software piracy" is considered a joke in general and we don't understand people who think otherwise, so no point in arguing about it. Second I already stated my opinion why I decided to do that in discussion about mod portal in general and it has nothing to do with game mechanics. All I do about it is just not playing the game, sometimes telling my opinion and not recommending the game to others (anymore).
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by aober93 »

Arent these gaps neglectible? I mean i didnt see em until reading 10 times, that there is a few pixels difference in belt density.

Many things in factorio dont work 100%. Fluid doesnt . Power plants dont. Whole factories dont. Also a single miner isnt 100% active. And so a belt transporting 99,9% of its capacity shouldnt be a problem at all.

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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by namek »

aober93 wrote:Arent these gaps neglectible? I mean i didnt see em until reading 10 times, that there is a few pixels difference in belt density.

Many things in factorio dont work 100%. Fluid doesnt . Power plants dont. Whole factories dont. Also a single miner isnt 100% active. And so a belt transporting 99,9% of its capacity shouldnt be a problem at all.
My main problem with this game, is unbalanced splitters, you can read more about it here viewtopic.php?f=18&t=52220 .
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Re: [0.16.30] Feeding from inserter make gap

Post by Neemys »

aober93 wrote:Arent these gaps neglectible? I mean i didnt see em until reading 10 times, that there is a few pixels difference in belt density.

Many things in factorio dont work 100%. Fluid doesnt . Power plants dont. Whole factories dont. Also a single miner isnt 100% active. And so a belt transporting 99,9% of its capacity shouldnt be a problem at all.
Every little white line between items is a gap (for latest screeshots), doesn't seem a lot on a normal factory when you don't need more than 3-4 belts of iron, but when you need almost 90 full blue belt of iron for a mega base, it adds up quickly. and throwing more belt because of gaps will hurt ups even more......
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