Red circuits, getting to construction bots

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RainbowCrane
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Red circuits, getting to construction bots

Post by RainbowCrane »

Hello,

I've looked through the various guides and FAQs and have played both custom maps and New Hope up to the final push to plastics and the plane, but I'm having some issues with resources running dry before I can scale up enough to get blue chips and bots. I could use some feedback on what I'm doing wrong.

Some lessons I think I've learned:
  • blue belts are a bad idea until creating enough chips to get bots helping with scaling up the factory. All my Lube gets consumed by the belts otherwise.
  • Don't scale up the bus until I get past bots - it's hard for me to fill 4 lanes of iron or copper, it just wastes resources sitting on belts until I can scale smelting later (bots seem especially useful for scaling up smelting with blueprints). 2 lanes each may be enough for the initial bot push?
  • one red chip factory dedicated to blue science seems sufficient for the initial bot research. Don't try to put red chips/blue chips on the bus until I get better throughput of raw materials.
Past those lessons, do you create red/blue minifactories for your initial push to logistics and bots, then scale red circuits, blue circuits, etc once you improve crude oil production and iron/copper ore supply once you have modular armor, personal roboports, etc? My biggest challenge with oil so far seems to be not going too big too early, mini factories may help?

Thanks.

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DaveMcW
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Re: Red circuits, getting to construction bots

Post by DaveMcW »

If your preferred factory design requires bots, then rushing to bots is a fine strategy.

But you can scale up with just yellow belts and inserters if you have a good design for it. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/131363980?t=03h25m35s

Frightning
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Re: Red circuits, getting to construction bots

Post by Frightning »

I find that you don't really need very many Processing units until very late game, much later than when you can first build them after researching Advanced electronics. Advanced circuits however, are needed in nontrivial quantities. So what I usually do, is set up a line of Assembly machine 2s, which are fed on one side by two belts, one of which is Copper cables (both lanes), the other is a mixed belt of Electronic circuits and Plastic bars (1 lane each). A run another belt on the other side of this line to collect the Advanced circuits, which I can then put a buffer chest after the last Assembly machine 2 and from there, lead a belt to whatever I want to automate production of that needs Advanced circuits. I've typically found that 4-8 Assembly machine 2s making Advanced circuits is enough, depending on how much I've scaled up my production by then. As for getting logistics robots set up, the most important thing to do is get Science pack 3s automated and research the Logistic chests so that you can make Requestor chests (and thus automate the use of Logistics robots to deliver needed materials to the correct locations). While that's being researched, you can setup automated production of Roboports, Logistics robots, and Passive provider chests (with a spot for Requestor chests once that tech is unlocked; I usually have a Steel chest temporarily in place of what will become a Requestor chest which is used to feed other Steel chests into the Assembly machines making my logistics chests).

RainbowCrane
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Re: Red circuits, getting to construction bots

Post by RainbowCrane »

Thank you both for the tips. I'm getting better at timing when to push for the next factory upgrade and when to grab resources. The learning process is quite a bit of fun. I've figured out that mini factories work way better for me rather than rushing the bus - pop a belt/gear setup right next to an ore patch with smelters to support building a longer-lived smelting setup, then move the belt factory to the bus when it gets annoying to run back for belts. Similar strategies for other early factories.

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Re: Red circuits, getting to construction bots

Post by Engimage »

You should always plan your factory/bus before ruching anything. Just count what throughput you might need for it. And there is definitely no requirement for bots for it.

For your main but the following will be fine:

3 lines of iron (leaving space for 4)
2 lines of copper (leaving space for 4)
then
1 line of gearwheels
1 line of steel
1 line of green circuits (leaving space for 4)
1 line of red circuits
1 line of plastic
1 line of sulfur

Then you should calculate what is the number of assemblers for every mass producted item you will need. Here you should know your current belt throughput which is 13 items/sec per one side of yellow belt, 26 for red and 40 for blue.
For gearwheels you will most likely end up with 6 assemblers (3 per belt side) which is enough for most factories. You will need to dedicate a full input belt of iron for this.
For green circuits you will need 12 assemblers (with 18 for wires) 6 per blue belt side. You will need to dedicate a full belt of iron + full belt of copper for this. You can start building these with a standard groups of (2 green + 3 wires) entending the line as your request increases up to the max of 12 per line.

For red circuits you might want to use 16 assemblers for a start. They always go by sets of 8 as you need 1 wires assembler per 8 red circuit assemblers.

Oil-wise you will need at least 5 to 10 oil refineries doing work for plastic and some sulfur. You need really little sulfur for the acid (batteries and blue circuits) so I don't recommend you using storage tank for the acid as it will consume a HUGE amount of your precious gas for the sulfur.

Research wise you can live with 10-20 research labs which will require ~5 red science assemblers, ~6 green ones and ~8 blue ones (don't remember last ones count really).

As you can see there is no need for a huge investment to build a well scaling bus. Just leave free space around your bus lines and between them for splitters etc.

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Re: Red circuits, getting to construction bots

Post by Xeorm »

I've always found that the difference between what I want to end up with and what I need to get up to that point differs too much to work on the end from the start. Goal for me is to produce science and enough stuff to make building the base easier. As an example, a small line to make AM 2's early is good, but something like steel chests (until I need the logistic chests) or radars are not manufactured. Easier to build those by hand until later.

Especially given how easy it is to deconstruct and how much time it takes to construct by hand instead of blueprint, better to spend time making the major factory later rather than sooner. Especially if you're running into resource problems, don't spend too much on infrastructure you don't need. Blue belts especially are expensive and only help when you need that single belt moving quicker. A red belt is ~4x the resource cost of a yellow, but only twice as fast.

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Re: Red circuits, getting to construction bots

Post by iceman_1212 »

but I'm having some issues with resources running dry before I can scale up enough to get blue chips and bots.
this is most likely indicative of slow expansion and, most likely, insufficient iron/copper infrastructure to support oil tech. blue science + bots alone require much more iron/steel/green circuits than does red + green science. blue circuits require another step-up in terms of iron/copper plate production.

as a frame of reference, 1 yellow belt of iron + half a yellow belt of copper + 20 steam engines is good for 5 tier 2 red science assemblers, 6 green science assemblers, ~15 labs and somewhat scattered production of additional belt/inserters/miners/assemblers/etc. adding oil tech requires more than doubling the iron/copper production (without taking steel into account).

my hint: trains cost only red/green science. ;)

p.s. it might be worth examining this conclusion: "Don't scale up the bus until I get past bots". if it's that you like bots and want to start playing with bots asap, then that's totally fine. but if your goal is to build your bus and you're looking for the fastest way to do it, then I would think that it's in your best interest to stay on belt / steam / steel furnace for longer.

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