Simple Questions and Short Answers

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Kayanor
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Kayanor » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:55 am

BlueTemplar wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:53 am
You can easily check that yourself. ;)
I wouldn't ask if I didn't already found the answer.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Porter65 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:27 pm

New questions, if you will.

I have not found the shortcut to open the train interface panel.

I find the techs horribly expensive, is that normal? I'm struggling to reach lasers turrets (on my way, nearly!) after 15 hours of play time.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Kayanor » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:34 pm

Porter65 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:27 pm
New questions, if you will.

I have not found the shortcut to open the train interface panel.

I find the techs horribly expensive, is that normal? I'm struggling to reach lasers turrets (on my way, nearly!) after 15 hours of play time.
The train interface panel can be opened via the button in the top right corner, above the minimap, the one with the train on it.

The expensiveness of the technologies kinda depends on how large your factory is. If you only have like 3 assemblers for each science pack and/or only very few labs, researching will take forever.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Porter65 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:24 am

Thanks Kavanor. But for the trains, I'm speaking of a shortcut, hotkey, I know and I do use the button at the top. But I often use it, very often indeed, so as there is a shortcut for Techs (T) and Blueprints (B), I'm desperately searching for a shortcut for Trains ...

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Kayanor » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:58 pm

Porter65 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:24 am
Thanks Kavanor. But for the trains, I'm speaking of a shortcut, hotkey, I know and I do use the button at the top. But I often use it, very often indeed, so as there is a shortcut for Techs (T) and Blueprints (B), I'm desperately searching for a shortcut for Trains ...
There is no option for that GUI in the controls setting, meaning there is also no (known) hotkey for it.
I'd suggest you head over to Ideas and Suggestions and post your suggestion (search first!)

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by disentius » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:14 pm

Kayanor wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:44 am
A question that came up back when environment sounds were added: What exactly is the difference between the 'Game effects' and the 'Environment sounds' volume sliders?
A quick test.


Game effects: (all other sounds on 0%)
- placing/removing entities
- roboport opening/closing
- trainwheels on rails and parking brakes on full stop (with accelerate/drive/fully stopped) both manual and auto

Environment: (all other sounds on 0%)
- train engine sound (stationary/driving/accelerating)
- Factorys working
- Belts running
- Power poles powerpoling (great sound, that)
- roboport bleeps/ robot sounds
- accumulator sizzle
- radar working

Seems like a Beta-stage ordering :mrgreen: e.g. subject to some overhaul.
Checked on a biterless world, but I suspect their schreeches and whatnot would categorize under Environment

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Kayanor » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:31 pm

disentius wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:14 pm
snip
Thank you.
It indeed is a very weird sorting, but I tested the biters: their "growling" is environment, their biting sound is game effect. The worms' eerie screams seem to be an environment sound since I couldn't hear them when I ran through that biter base with only game fx turned on. Couldn't test spitters since that was a biter-only base.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Porter65 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:47 pm

Somehow related, there is a kind of human cry from biters from time to time, it looks weird and out of place (and badly done, but that's personal).

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Kayanor » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Porter65 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:47 pm
Somehow related, there is a kind of human cry from biters from time to time, it looks weird and out of place (and badly done, but that's personal).
Some of the new sounds of the worms include something close to human cries.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Porter65 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:52 am

What would be a good rule of thumb for the ratio of laser batteries and accumulators?

If for sporadic attacks
Medium sized attacks
Fending off a huge wave (like a need for almost continuous fire for a long time)

I have totally no idea...

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:40 am

That's too player- and game-specific...
(Also, you can do without accumulators entirely.)

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Porter65 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:56 am

ok. Well, the basic is that an accumulator has enough energy for 2 laser shots though, which is not that much. A laser does 20 damages per hit, so needs 4 to kill a tier II Biter.

Meaning I'll need a lot and a lot of accumulators!

What I'm missing is basically how fast my steam engines can gear up from their standard output, around 50% of their max output, and their max output. Will they kick in in 3 seconds, 10, 30? If the later, I need even more accumulators...

An important question also is 'can I safely add lot and lot of extra steam engines'. And by safely I mean, are we sure these extras will not generate undue pollution if not active?
Said differently, are we sure that 80 steam engines working at half speed generate no more pollution than 40 at full power output? If yes, then I can plop a lot and they will kick in when the accumulators start to deplete.

---
Totally unrelated. I'm confused why Train Stops can't be put in some places, even if there is some straight track before them. Is it just the matter that the straight track segment is too short or there is an added subtlety to that?

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:13 pm

We've done some tests on IRC lately, and they seem to gear up as fast as fluid physics permit (and meaning that a steam engine already has at least 100/30=3.33 seconds worth of power stored in the steam in its fluidbox).
Steam engines don't generate any pollution. Boilers do. And they only generate pollution proportional to their output power.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Bauer » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:20 pm

Porter65 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:56 am
ok. Well, the basic is that an accumulator has enough energy for 2 laser shots though, which is not that much. A laser does 20 damages per hit, so needs 4 to kill a tier II Biter.

Meaning I'll need a lot and a lot of accumulators!

What I'm missing is basically how fast my steam engines can gear up from their standard output, around 50% of their max output, and their max output. Will they kick in in 3 seconds, 10, 30? If the later, I need even more accumulators...

An important question also is 'can I safely add lot and lot of extra steam engines'. And by safely I mean, are we sure these extras will not generate undue pollution if not active?
Said differently, are we sure that 80 steam engines working at half speed generate no more pollution than 40 at full power output? If yes, then I can plop a lot and they will kick in when the accumulators start to deplete.

---
Totally unrelated. I'm confused why Train Stops can't be put in some places, even if there is some straight track before them. Is it just the matter that the straight track segment is too short or there is an added subtlety to that?
Steam engines do NOT produce polution themselves. It's the boilers.
By just doubleing the steam engines, you just have their internal storage of steam as storage of energy.
You can store the steam in a tank (without polution) and have a large number of steam engines to produce energy when needed.
This way, there will be no polution "surge". However, when you generate the steam in the first place, the boilers will produce polution.

My suggestion:
Use as much solar as possible. Build arrays with the "ideal" 21:25 ratio, and ADDITIONALLY build an array with accumulators for your lasers (connected to the network, though). I would start building 4-5 accumulators per laser turret.
Get rid of steam power ASAP but build an emergence power supply that is connected to the grid with a power switch that activates when the accumulator charge is below 20% -- or even something fancy with an SR-latch. Here you use only very few boilers, 2 tanks per boiler, and many steam engines (10). 10 steam engines use 10x60x60 = 36,000 steam/minute. Hence, this setup will stay on for about 1.5 minutes. Set an alarm because this is supposed to never happen.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Porter65 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:48 pm

Very interesting! But is steam not cooling down back to water?

So a setting could be something like 4 Steam Engines, 1 steam Tank, then a boiler? This would add quite a large buffer for output?

And why get rid of Steam Engines? Because of pollution? Because I have no coal issue. But I have a huge tech issue. Playing a difficult setting (for me) and each tech is hand picked, because of the burden on my output. There can be 1 to 3 days before I restart a tech, as it costs a lot, and any cost means less ammos and turrets (probably 90% of my output is only for defense).

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:11 pm

Nope, and steam would only cool if you were able to barrel it... (items don't have a temperature).

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Bauer » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:23 pm

Porter65 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:48 pm
Very interesting! But is steam not cooling down back to water?

So a setting could be something like 4 Steam Engines, 1 steam Tank, then a boiler? This would add quite a large buffer for output?
Yes, you can even do boiler-steam engines-tank.

Porter65 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:48 pm
And why get rid of Steam Engines? Because of pollution? Because I have no coal issue. But I have a huge tech issue. Playing a difficult setting (for me) and each tech is hand picked, because of the burden on my output. There can be 1 to 3 days before I restart a tech, as it costs a lot, and any cost means less ammos and turrets (probably 90% of my output is only for defense).
You can do steam power for a very very long time, including launching a rocket.
However, if you are struggling with biters, solar can help to reduce polution. I have not played with biters after 0.17, but what I read is that polution is much more of a problem since then.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Porter65 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:13 pm

I'm still quite confused by Train Stops. I have removed all signals, and yet I still can't put a train stop where I want!

Image

I want to add a train stop that will go from East to West in the leftmost zone/rectangle. I just can't. The game only allows West to East, that's not what I desire.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Bauer » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:55 am

Most likely, the N-S rail in the west in one sided (northbound). Check for a signal south of the screenshot.
It also seems that there are parts of rail missing at your forges. That is definately the case north of your rectangle and maybe also at the station in the north-west.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Porter65 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:16 am

Thanks. So a Train Signal insulate a section from another. So ... why not add a lot of signals to create mini sections with a lot of bypasses also? Is that a good move?

I removed the extra rail tile north, thanks. Also I managed to make it works by removing the connection, installing the station then adding it again (and the train can find path)

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