Simple Questions and Short Answers

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TheChucklesStart
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by TheChucklesStart » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:30 pm

disentius wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:16 pm
I think you mean the logistic network?
And yes, you can connect the inserter directly.
inserter in logistic network.gif
The logistic network provides the circuit network all of the items (and their counts) that are in the logistic network, however, that is not the only way to get all of the items in some area into a circuit network. In my case, I am trying to make a sushi belt that can have 20+ items on it.

Getting a count of how many items are in the sushi belt is pretty straight forward, there are lots of examples of that.

What I am wanting is a way for an inserter that is taking things out of an assembly machine to know if the sushi belt has too many of that item. In your example, you have the inserter manually configured to not insert an item if the circuit network says there is over 100 red belts. I want a way to do that without having to manually specify what the item type is, and instead of the inserter look up what it is holding.

So in your example, the inserter would pick up a red belt, look to see if there are less than 100 red belts in the logistics network before adding it to the chest. However, the next time the inserter might pick up something, it might pick up a blue belt, and then it would look up to see if there are less than 100 blue belts in the logistics network before adding it to the chest.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by eradicator » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:02 pm

TheChucklesStart wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:30 pm
So in your example, the inserter would pick up a red belt, look to see if there are less than 100 red belts in the logistics network before adding it to the chest. However, the next time the inserter might pick up something, it might pick up a blue belt, and then it would look up to see if there are less than 100 blue belts in the logistics network before adding it to the chest.
You have to use filters as circuit signals can not stop inserters from *dropping* things into chests that they already grabbed.

If none of the inserters has to handle more than 5 different item types (for fast inserter) you could do something like
([CC Desired Item Counts for Inserter] + [Belt Sushi System Content * -1]) -> Set Inserter Filter.
This uses the fact that only signals with positive values can set filters. Requires one CC per inserter.

If you need each inserter to handle more item types than it has filters then you probably have to split the job up so each one handles fewer types, or cope with the fact that items with higher order will be treated preferential. (Order is the order that items appear in in the "select a signal" window etc.)
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by mmmPI » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:07 am

eradicator wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:02 pm
You have to use filters as circuit signals can not stop inserters from *dropping* things into chests that they already grabbed.
That's what i think too after my testing, when you try to make the inserter react to its own holding it's too late, it will drop it anyway.

The inserter then should not pick unecessary things, thus the logic of comparing with needed item needs to occur before the grabbing.

And you use filter to tell the inserter what it is allowed to pick, only the needed items.

but
TheChucklesStart wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:30 pm
What I am wanting is a way for an inserter that is taking things out of an assembly machine to know if the sushi belt has too many of that item. In your example, you have the inserter manually configured to not insert an item if the circuit network says there is over 100 red belts. I want a way to do that without having to manually specify what the item type is, and instead of the inserter look up what it is holding.
i get the impression that your assembly machines may change receipe automatically, in this case i have no short answer.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Adamo » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:17 am

Without reading too much of the conversation, so excuse me if I'm off base, but it seems to me for a system like this, the right approach would be to take a "read and request" approach, where you're monitoring how many items are being fed and processed through the network at some recycling point, and then sending out a request to the network for new items to be put on the sushi line as needed. This way, you're not working with trying to read what the inserter is holding AFTER it's picked it up, and then respond (so at the best case you're at least one tick behind), which seems like trying to chase your tail before you've even started.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Pi-C » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:14 pm

Sorry for the late reply, couldn't try out the suggestions before.
mmmPI wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:39 am
Pi-C wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:19 am
Does anybody have an idea how to load multiple adjacent belts on both sides without using too much space?
Does that qualify ?
mmmPI wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:22 pm
Image
They certainly don'tuse much room. :-)
disentius wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:38 pm
@Pi-C:
Does this qualify as "not to much room"?
Beltfill.gif
In a way. I like how you side-load the splitters!
eradicator wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:43 am
Pi-C wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:19 am
Does anybody have an idea how to load multiple adjacent belts on both sides without using too much space?
If it gets too wide you'll have to add some extra space for electricity:
screenshot_49614.png
screenshot_50331.png
That doesn't look too wide either. :-)

Thanks for all the suggestions! I could make use of some of them, and I'll probably have use for the others in different situations. However, I'm afraid I wasn't too clear about what I need, and using the chest in my screenshot probably wasn't such a good idea. It was good to demonstrate how loading underground belts didn't work, but it doesn't show exactly what I need. I'm using the Warehousing Mod in my game, so I put down storage and ware houses at the beginning of the bus. This way, I can't use the designs with staggered chests. Logistic chests aren't an option at this time because I don't have robots yet. So I have to place all inserters in one line. This is what I've come up with in the meantime:
storage-bus.png
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The contraption on top works because I've more space at the beginning of the bus as the two bottom lanes are reserved (the two lanes at the bottom are just reserved at the beginning of the bus, they will enter some way down and won't have to be loaded here). The solution with the two smaller storage houses is rather compact because there are two pairs of belt lanes carrying identical items. It would need more space horizontally if there were six different lanes.

While I like the backwards side-loading of the splitters (warehouse), I think the other approach is better because there is access to the storage houses from the right side. There isn't enough room to feed in several lanes into the warehouse! But it's just a temporary solution, and it works for the time being because I can still fill it manually (a truck with a huge trunk is filled where the solid fuel is produced, while I have plenty of time to build other parts of the factory; still need to drive it over there for unloading, but that's OK for now). I'll probably have to rebuild anyway once I've come to set up the rail network.
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by TheChucklesStart » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:19 am

@eradicator @mmmPI and @adamo

Thank you, with your help I think I have figured it out. You all were right, having the signal I wanted wouldn't have helped.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by slippycheeze » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm

disentius wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:16 pm
I think you mean the logistic network?
And yes, you can connect the inserter directly.
If they meant the circuit network (as in, reading content of chests or something) the same deal applies. Just connect the circuit wire, and set the enable condition the same way.

That only works if you have a single, specific thing you want them to handle, though. You can't build a simple machine that'll work with multiple different types of item using a simple inserter.

They may be able to use the circuit network to set filters on a filter-inserter though. Uh, but that is kind of limited to, like, five items or so max, because of the nature of the filter set, which poses more limits.

Usually it is more efficient to either (a) don't have mixed sources, or (b) use logistic robots, or (c) have something decide what item should be moved next, and tell the inserter to move it explicitly. That last is a "decide first, inserter second" strategy, rather than the inserter itself owning the decision. It also doesn't involve "what the inserter is holding" in any way.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by eradicator » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:07 am

Pi-C wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:14 pm
Thanks for all the suggestions! I could make use of some of them, and I'll probably have use for the others in different situations. However, I'm afraid I wasn't too clear about what I need,
Looks similar to train unloading now with the 6 lanes. Except train unloaders only handle one item type, so for scalability maybe like this? Scales for any multiple of 2. The interesting bit is on the concrete, the rest is decorations. It's just a more generalized implementation of what you have on your second screenshot though.
parrallelbelts.png
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Pi-C » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:22 pm

Just found this on the wiki:
Path tiles apply bonuses to the walking speed of the player and reduce rolling resistances for cars and tanks, improving their acceleration and top speed. They do not increase the speed of enemies.
Has it always been that way? I dimly remember to have read that speed multipliers from pathing or transport belts affect everybody, not just the player.
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Pi-C » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:29 pm

eradicator wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:07 am
Looks similar to train unloading now with the 6 lanes. Except train unloaders only handle one item type, so for scalability maybe like this? Scales for any multiple of 2. The interesting bit is on the concrete, the rest is decorations. It's just a more generalized implementation of what you have on your second screenshot though.
That's very nice, no belts leaving the confines of the bus!
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Elvaeyn » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:34 am

I have five belts feeding ten different items into a cargo wagon. Inside the wagon I want exactly 100 of each item. Is there a way to make the inserters switch to a different item after there are 100 of one?
Image of current setup

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by mmmPI » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:43 am

Elvaeyn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:34 am
I have five belts feeding ten different items into a cargo wagon. Inside the wagon I want exactly 100 of each item. Is there a way to make the inserters switch to a different item after there are 100 of one?
Image of current setup
Made me think about this one :viewtopic.php?f=18&t=74260

Now if you want to load the trains ( and not unload ) there is the possiility to use "read train content" on the train station.

The only difference i see in the wiring is that instead of setting the filter for the inserter based on the chest quantity, you use the wagon train quantity ( and rotate 180° the inserter).

This means the green wire that come from the chest into the arithmetic combinator, should instead come from the train stop.

Hopefully it does the trick.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Pi-C » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:48 am

Elvaeyn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:34 am
I have five belts feeding ten different items into a cargo wagon. Inside the wagon I want exactly 100 of each item. Is there a way to make the inserters switch to a different item after there are 100 of one?
Image of current setup
Circuit magic is the way to go!
train-loading.png
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I've also attached a savegame. You'll need Creative mod and Attach Notes, so use the "Synchronize" button on loading the game. For documentation, hover your cursor over the signposts.

EDIT: In the savegame, I've used "Override stack size: 1" for the (stack) filter inserters. This way, loading takes longer, but the inserters will load exactly the requested amount. If you don't care that you might get 108 (stack size 12 * 9) items of a kind instead of just 100, remove the stack filter override and change the condition on the top left decider combinator to "EVERYTHING <= 0"!
Attachments
train-loading.zip
(3.09 MiB) Downloaded 9 times
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by theolderbeholder » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:21 am

Or set stack size to 5.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Pi-C » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:25 am

theolderbeholder wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:21 am
Or set stack size to 5.
I'm not sure whether this would work with normal filter inserters. What is the maximum stack size they can have?
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by theolderbeholder » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:33 am

Pi-C wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:25 am
theolderbeholder wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:21 am
Or set stack size to 5.
I'm not sure whether this would work with normal filter inserters. What is the maximum stack size they can have?
It wouldn´t, they go to three, iirc, just all all non-stack ones. So, stack size 2 for them.

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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Pi-C » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:17 pm

theolderbeholder wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:33 am
Pi-C wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:25 am
theolderbeholder wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:21 am
Or set stack size to 5.
I'm not sure whether this would work with normal filter inserters. What is the maximum stack size they can have?
It wouldn´t, they go to three, iirc, just all all non-stack ones. So, stack size 2 for them.
Right, just looked it up myself: with Inserter capacity bonus 7, non-stack inserters can move up to 3 items, stack size 2 is available once Inserter capacity bonus 2 is researched, so using "Stack size override: 2" is better than the setting I used.
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Bene8493 » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:43 am

I have an assembly machine with 3 output inserters. I always thought that if you have multiple inserters taking from the same source they would take turns. At least sometimes this seems to be the case. But this time I noticed one of them seems to always have priority and the other 2 have to wait until this one has filled its chest. When this one is done the other 2 are taking turns as I expected. I thought this behaviour should be documented somewhere but couldn't find anything on the wiki or the forums. Is this a bug? Or is there no general rule?

This is my build. The red one has priority over the other 2.
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by eradicator » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:31 pm

Bene8493 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:43 am
This is my build. The red one has priority over the other 2.
Wild speculation: Try pressing shift+space to pause the game and show the grid. If there's a thick black line seperating the upper right one from the other two...
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Re: Simple Questions and Short Answers

Post by Bene8493 » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:47 pm

eradicator wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:31 pm
Bene8493 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:43 am
This is my build. The red one has priority over the other 2.
Wild speculation: Try pressing shift+space to pause the game and show the grid. If there's a thick black line seperating the upper right one from the other two...
You're right. That's very confusing. It shouldn't work differently depending on where you place stuff. Is this a known bug? Will this get fixed?

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