Pumps are being...odd

[Kryptos]

So, I've set up more than a few steam engines, and noticed that a few of my more linear setups were running out of water. So, I figured, pumps to the rescue. knock out some throughput pipes, put in some pumps, life is good. Except this only exacerbated the problem. Specifically, I'm currently looking at a pipe that contains 9.1 water going into a pump, which contains 0.5 water, and the output contains 0.0 water. Am I correct in assuming the arrow points in the direction of flow?

[Woehler]

Pictures are always helpful for trouble shooting a set up..
That said. I've always had problems with high throughput of liquids.
Are you using offshore pumps or small pumps?

EDT. This might be helpful https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=5&t=6066

[Kryptos]

Pictures:

Pipe before pump

Pump example1.jpg (213.2 KiB) Viewed 28356 times

Pipe after pump

Pump example2.jpg (208.4 KiB) Viewed 28356 times

I read that article, and based some of my engine design after it. The small pump in the image supplies 22 steam engines, and when replaced by pipe, they all function mediocre-ly. When pipe is replaced by pump, they stop. 8 engines and 42 boilers are before the pump, and they are all functioning fine.

[Woehler]

Never had much luck joining and splitting pipes. So have just avoided it all together.
But according the the other forum post. 1 pump can only pump 30 fluids/sec. So even if it would work the pump might be a bottleneck.

[Peter34]

Back in 0.12.09 or 0.12.10 or something, when I tried to make an automated system to gradually switch Steam Engine lines off as my Accumulators got full (I succeeded, by the way) using the Smarter Circuitry mod, I found that you need 2 Small Pumps to supply sufficient heated water to a line of 10 Steam Engines.

Everything kept dying when I had only 1 Small Pump that I'd switch on and off, but when I made a "parallel flow boost" system where the Pipe system widened out to be 2 Pipes wide before and after the 2 Small Pumps, things started working.

(It also seemed to me that it's preferable to place the Small Pumps after the Boilers, not before them.)

[SpeedDaemon]

I think you need 5 or 6 small pumps in parallel to completely fill a pipe. Also, I think a single small pump has only about 1/3 of the throughput of an offshore pump, so Offshore pump->small pump->stuff will actually make things worse.

In vanilla, you're better off just not going longer than 10 steam engines off of one offshore pump (unless you're doing something more complicated than straight-up steam power).

[RoddyVR]

In the game i started yesterday, going to try 90 water/piper by doing 3 offshores split into 2 lines of boilers (with 3 electric pumps pushing the water into each boiler line), which will give me 20 boilers and 15 engines on each pipe. as far as i know the 3 pumps should push 90 water far enough to get through the boilers and engines.

In the map i just abandoned over the weekend, i tried 20 engine (30 boilers) lines, and it didnt work, 2 offshore pumps cant push the water far enough along that line, and 2 engines in each line ended up not working at all. from some thread around here learned that 4 el pumps could push 120 water but only a distance of 14 pipes, which isnt enough. so trying for 3 pumps cause that thread said it would push for over 100 tiles... more then enough.

[vanatteveldt]

In vanilla, you're better off just not going longer than 10 steam engines off of one offshore pump (unless you're doing something more complicated than straight-up steam power).

This is probably redundant, but two pumps supplying 20 steam engines on one pipe also works perfectly. I tend to set up steam engines in rows of 10, with two rows sharing a coal line, so now they also share an input pump. This makes logistics a lot easier, especially if water comes from the side.

Image

[OT: How do you collapse images until expanded on this forum? I'm used to 'spoiler' doing that, but here spoiler seems to blank an image, not collapse it?]

[daniel34]

[OT: How do you collapse images until expanded on this forum? I'm used to 'spoiler' doing that, but here spoiler seems to blank an image, not collapse it?]

I've fixed the spoiler tag for you, the correct syntax for expanding spoilers is spoiler=

Code: Select all

[spoiler=Image][img]http://i.imgur.com/pJcpGJV.jpg[/img][/spoiler]

[vanatteveldt]

Cool, thanks!

[RoddyVR]

In vanilla, you're better off just not going longer than 10 steam engines off of one offshore pump (unless you're doing something more complicated than straight-up steam power).

This is probably redundant, but two pumps supplying 20 steam engines on one pipe also works perfectly. I tend to set up steam engines in rows of 10, with two rows sharing a coal line, so now they also share an input pump. This makes logistics a lot easier, especially if water comes from the side.

Image

[OT: How do you collapse images until expanded on this forum? I'm used to 'spoiler' doing that, but here spoiler seems to blank an image, not collapse it?]

I thought that would work, but it doesnt. You will never get full 510kw*20 from that setup, once you start drawing more then 18 engines of power from it, the last 2 will turn off, because at full blast the first 18 will eat all the water. Exact number MAY vary depending on number of pipe pieces in the setup (still not sure exactly)

[DaveMcW]

I thought that would work, but it doesnt. You will never get full 510kw*20 from that setup, once you start drawing more then 18 engines of power from it, the last 2 will turn off, because at full blast the first 18 will eat all the water. Exact number MAY vary depending on number of pipe pieces in the setup (still not sure exactly)

It does work at 120 water/s, if you use less than 14 pipes before the split.

[vanatteveldt]

Interesting. I've never seen performance drop, but then again I don't monitor religiously.

How many pipes are an underground pipe again? And do pipes before the join count?

(Related, i.e. OT, I just experimented with putting my coal mines and inserters on a separate power network, and that is the best change I've ever made . No more power-failure spirals!)

[RoddyVR]

I thought that would work, but it doesnt. You will never get full 510kw*20 from that setup, once you start drawing more then 18 engines of power from it, the last 2 will turn off, because at full blast the first 18 will eat all the water. Exact number MAY vary depending on number of pipe pieces in the setup (still not sure exactly)

It does work at 120 water/s, if you use less than 14 pipes before the split.

You're right, your setup is usual 1/14/10, you dont have 20 engines on one pipe.
was looking at posts on tablet yesterday and didnt look at your immage closely enough, just read the text that you had 20 and 2 offshores on a pipe and assume you had same thing as me:

[Kryptos]

I ended up taking out the pump entirely. The regular water flow keeps the far engines running *most* of the time, so I figured that's good enough. Just set up a few more blocks of steam engines. When I've got 2 rocket launches and 800 logistic robots under my belt on that save, 'tis not much of an issue.

Unrelated, doing two rows of 21 boilers which feed either 15 engines each, or come together to feed 30 seems to work quite well in my experience, as long as you don't have them drop to a single pipe bottleneck. Which is sort of what is happening in this case. 22 engines are off a single pipe.

[bobucles]

One offshore pump will supply 60 water, enough for 10 nearby steam engines. An electric pump will move 30 water, enough to feed 5 at full capacity. The water pipe itself can move a maximum of 120 water over VERY short distances, or 60 over a moderate distance. Distance reduces the efficiency of water flow, with each pipe unit (or underground pipe end piece) counting against it. Underground pipes will dramatically increase the distance of water flow if you stretch them to maximum.

Feeding more than 20 boilers with one pipe is a clear mistake. No water line can handle more than 2 offshore pumps or 4 electric pumps for 20 steam engines, and even that will stress the line beyond capacity.