I don't much like using blueprints off forums and stuff, and I'm trying to fully automate Kovarex Enrichment.
I put up seven centrifuges and two belts around them, one for 238 and the other for 235, the issue I'm facing is that the centrifuge at the start of the conveyor hoards all the 235 so others can't take the oversupply. Is there a simple way for inserters to stop inserting when the minimum requirement for production has been met?
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:29 am
by Stringweasel
Not a simple way. You'd have to using combinators to count the amount of items the inserter picks up, and disable it when it has enough.
The easy way it just to wait until you have more 235
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:52 am
by Midge
any alternate ways?
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:57 am
by Stringweasel
Midge wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:52 am
any alternate ways?
Stringweasel wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:29 am
Not a simple way. You'd have to using combinators to count the amount of items the inserter picks up, and disable it when it has enough.
Additionally, you can also use some smarter tricks with fewer or even zero combinators IIRC, but always using circuit wires.
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:40 am
by SoShootMe
Midge wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:51 am
Is there a simple way for inserters to stop inserting when the minimum requirement for production has been met?
I agree with Stringweasel, there is no simple way to avoid buffering U-235 in Kovarex enrichment. Any solution will involve using the circuit network (though there is at least one possible combinator-free, robust design), but there are a number of different approaches which vary in both complexity and capability.
Since it sounds like you don't want the answers as such, I'll just say that on the capability front, you might like to think about:
Do you want it to "self-start"? That means you can put down a row of centrifuges and as one starts working, the U-235 it produces will go towards getting the next one going.
Do you want to use productivity modules? Not doing so means you know that 41 U-235 will be produced every time, which allows some simplification.
Do you want to allow for beacons (and if so, what arrangement)? This obviously constrains layouts for beacons to affect the centrifige(s).
Do you want 100% active time? This requires a buffer of 80 U-235 per centrifuge, so that they can immediately start the next cycle. Maybe you want to switch it to work like that once you've got several centrifuges running...
What happens if you are not consuming the U-235, if U-238 is not available, or when uranium processing produces U-235? Some designs are not robust in these and similar cases (eg they will get "stuck" or buffer extra U-235), but will be fine as long as you have other things in place to ensure they don't happen.
Midge wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:51 am
Is there a simple way for inserters to stop inserting when the minimum requirement for production has been met?
I agree with Stringweasel, there is no simple way to avoid buffering U-235 in Kovarex enrichment. Any solution will involve using the circuit network (though there is at least one possible combinator-free, robust design), but there are a number of different approaches which vary in both complexity and capability.
Since it sounds like you don't want the answers as such, I'll just say that on the capability front, you might like to think about:
Do you want it to "self-start"? That means you can put down a row of centrifuges and as one starts working, the U-235 it produces will go towards getting the next one going.
Do you want to use productivity modules? Not doing so means you know that 41 U-235 will be produced every time, which allows some simplification.
Do you want to allow for beacons (and if so, what arrangement)? This obviously constrains layouts for beacons to affect the centrifige(s).
Do you want 100% active time? This requires a buffer of 80 U-235 per centrifuge, so that they can immediately start the next cycle. Maybe you want to switch it to work like that once you've got several centrifuges running...
What happens if you are not consuming the U-235, if U-238 is not available, or when uranium processing produces U-235? Some designs are not robust in these and similar cases (eg they will get "stuck" or buffer extra U-235), but will be fine as long as you have other things in place to ensure they don't happen.
I want to use productivity modules, I want it to self-start and 238 can't run out as I have mining and refining connected and running
don't limit yourself just to inserters. (i don't mean combinators)
How did you split U238 and U235 from the mining post?
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:51 pm
by Stringweasel
Midge wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:02 pm
my current process:
That looks like a really good setup Once it gets going it should work well!
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:03 pm
by Tertius
A common solution is 1 centrifuge with Kovarex, with 3 stack inserters and a belt running in a half circle around it (half circle, not closed). The half circle starts with the 1st stack inserter, which is taking out the Kovarex products. Next stack inserter is directly next to it and re-inserts whatever was just taken out of the centrifuge. So everything required for the next loop is just taken in again and only overflow U-235 remains on the belt. It's important to either use only stack inserters for both, or use only fast inserters for both, but no mix. Otherwise some Uranium remains on the belt that should be re-inserted.
Then, at an edge, U-238 is filtered to the outer lane and U-235 to the inner lane of the half circle with a filtered splitter.
After that, external U-235 and U-238 from refining centrifuges is added, again filtered to the outer/inner lane. After that, the 3rd stack inserter is placed, which fills the remaining U-235 and U-238 from the refining additions into the centrifuge, if it isn't full yet.
Any surplus U-235 just flows out of the half circle, as well as any U-238.
However, surplus starts to flow out only after 40+80 U-235 has been accumulated within the Kovarex centrifuge. 40 are currently processed and 80 are buffered for processing.
To control and accumulate less within the Kovarex centrifuge, circuitry is required. Since this is a startup issue only, and never again relevant after the process is up and running, it's overkill to invest in such a circuit (in my opinion). To accelerate the initial U-235 requirements, use speed modules and optionally beacons with speed modules. After the process overflows and you get U-235, you can remove the beacons and replace speed modules with prod modules - 1 Kovarex centrifuge with prod modules produces enough U-235 for some 20 reactors, as far as I remember.
Midge wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:02 pm
my current process:
That looks like a really good setup Once it gets going it should work well!
yeah at this point I'm just waiting for there be enough 235 so that all buffers get filled and I won't have to do anything
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:54 pm
by Tertius
This seems an excessive amount of kovarex centrifuges. All you need is 1 centrifuge for kovarex enrichment per 20-30 reactors.
The other image you posted indicates that you built power plants around single reactors. Keep in mind that the energy output of reactors is multiplied, if you build them next to each other. This is called "neighbor bonus". A single reactor has 40 MW. Two reactors next to each other don't have 2*40=80 MW, they have 160 MW for the same fuel. 2*40 MW for the reactors themselves, 2*40 MW for the 2 neighbor bonuses because they touch each other. If you build 4 reactors next to each other as a quarter, you get 4*40 for the reactors, and 4*80 MW as neighbor bonus (each touches another reactor with 2 sides), so it's 4*40 + 4*80 = 480 MW. Not just 160 MW for 4 single reactors.
It's a way to get Kovarex off the ground but has reduced performance in the long run.
The followup-posts explain the timing.
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 2:07 am
by ColonelSandersLite
Just to point it out -
If you're dead set on X centrifuges and definitely absolutely don't want to use circuits or other logic, one solution would be to feed the centrifuges with a 1 to X balancer and give each centrifuge it's own incoming u-235 line.
It's not how I would go about it, but it's an option.
Edit - Actually, this can seize if you try to do it this way before you have a certain minimum threshold of u-235 so it's probably not what you're looking for.
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:03 pm
by Midge
Tertius wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:54 pm
This seems an excessive amount of kovarex centrifuges. All you need is 1 centrifuge for kovarex enrichment per 20-30 reactors.
The other image you posted indicates that you built power plants around single reactors. Keep in mind that the energy output of reactors is multiplied, if you build them next to each other. This is called "neighbor bonus". A single reactor has 40 MW. Two reactors next to each other don't have 2*40=80 MW, they have 160 MW for the same fuel. 2*40 MW for the reactors themselves, 2*40 MW for the 2 neighbor bonuses because they touch each other. If you build 4 reactors next to each other as a quarter, you get 4*40 for the reactors, and 4*80 MW as neighbor bonus (each touches another reactor with 2 sides), so it's 4*40 + 4*80 = 480 MW. Not just 160 MW for 4 single reactors.
yeah I'm aware, it's a choice. the reactors I have are blueprints off the web and I'm holding off on building a bigger reactor til' I'm ready mentally
Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:05 pm
by Midge
yeah this is solved since all the centrifuge's buffers are filled and I already have 1.2k excess of 235
Green is the inserter and counter, that stops inserting once inserted U-235 is ≥ 40
Red is the clock, Orange resets the clock after 60 seconds
Pink are the end gates, top one checks if 60 seconds have passed, bottom checks if Green is stopped
Blue waits for both to be true and pushes -40 into Green, allowing it to resume insertion
