Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

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barto
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Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by barto »

I'm trying it right now, it seems the most challenging and I haven't found anyone having done this yet, It requires to think completely different I found compared to the normal game. Let me know what you think.

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by mrvn »

I assume that also means no filter inserter, since they have no burner variant. Haven't done that, not up to the rocket. But played with that a bit when starting out in marathon mode and not having the research yet.

Any building that produces more than one item as output will be a challenge. If you play vanilla that's not a problem as I think only recipes with catalyst (e.g. Covarex) have that and you just feed the catalyst back into the building.

But I did this with AngelBob and there you have lots of recipes with multiple outputs. The trick I used there was to carefully place the buildings so I could use inserter to go directly from one to the other. Then the burner inserter filter for the items the second building needs. You basically end up doing a lot of direct insertion.

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by barto »

124214.png
124214.png (4 MiB) Viewed 442 times
This an example of what I've made sofar
Last edited by barto on Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

barto wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:29 pm
This an example of what I've made sofar https://imgur.com/a/A4hkAC9
Would probably be easier if you post these direct to the forums here (use the attachments tab under the area where you compose your post). Some people don't like going to 3rd party sites, some 3rd party sites will delete images not associated with an account after a time, or (as in my case) some 3rd party sites don't work for everyone.

If you have a lot of images or they are very large, you can also wrap them in spoiler tags (be sure to include text with the tag, so it reads: spoiler=your-text-here) so that they won't load right away, saving the bandwidth when initially looking at the thread.

Edit:
barto wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:29 pm
124214.pngThis an example of what I've made sofar
Thanks. :)

Looks interesting, though I do have a question. It looks like you have burner inserters feeding burner inserters? Am I looking at that right? Any particular reason why? Those inserters should be able to fuel themselves.

Edit2: Also, if you're not against the idea of mods for a really, truly burner only challenge...
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/BurnersOnly
I've never actually tried that mod, but it looks interesting for what you're doing. :D

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by barto »

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:41 pm
barto wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:29 pm
This an example of what I've made sofar https://imgur.com/a/A4hkAC9
Would probably be easier if you post these direct to the forums here (use the attachments tab under the area where you compose your post). Some people don't like going to 3rd party sites, some 3rd party sites will delete images not associated with an account after a time, or (as in my case) some 3rd party sites don't work for everyone.

If you have a lot of images or they are very large, you can also wrap them in spoiler tags (be sure to include text with the tag, so it reads: spoiler=your-text-here) so that they won't load right away, saving the bandwidth when initially looking at the thread.

Edit:
barto wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:29 pm
124214.pngThis an example of what I've made sofar
Thanks. :)

Looks interesting, though I do have a question. It looks like you have burner inserters feeding burner inserters? Am I looking at that right? Any particular reason why? Those inserters should be able to fuel themselves.

Edit2: Also, if you're not against the idea of mods for a really, truly burner only challenge...
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/BurnersOnly
I've never actually tried that mod, but it looks interesting for what you're doing. :D
Burners seem to only take coal from the opposite side they are inserting from

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

barto wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:10 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:41 pm
Looks interesting, though I do have a question. It looks like you have burner inserters feeding burner inserters? Am I looking at that right? Any particular reason why? Those inserters should be able to fuel themselves.
Burners seem to only take coal from the opposite side they are inserting from
Oooohhhh... those are the output inserters. Apologies. The resolution was low enough I didn't catch that. :P

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by mrvn »

They take fuel from the source, never from the destination.

With BurnerLeach they also take from the fuel slot of the source, e.g. take coal out of a furnace, to fuel themself. That mod also has a hack that gives empty burner inserter a tiny bit of energy every now and them so they can grab some fuel. So if you ever run out they recover and you don't have to fuel them all by hand.
Last edited by mrvn on Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

mrvn wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:32 pm
They take fuel from the source, never from the destination.
Yes, I'm aware of that. I just didn't catch right away that the belts were the destinations. :P

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by mrvn »

How do you handle recipes with 2 or more items? If you have one belt for each then there is no space left for an output belt unless you only build one assembler.

I assume circuit controlled inserter are also forbidden, right? Otherwise you can program yourself a splitter.

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by mmmPI »

barto wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:34 pm
I'm trying it right now, it seems the most challenging and I haven't found anyone having done this yet, It requires to think completely different I found compared to the normal game. Let me know what you think.
I think you can make 1 giant loop of belt, and have every machine connected to it, either input or output.

it will just be very slow x)

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by atomizer »

Vehicle inventories with filters can be used for complex crafting and belt crossing/filtering. Researching automobilism would still take some effort, but seems doable.

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by mrvn »

atomizer wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:03 pm
Vehicle inventories with filters can be used for complex crafting and belt crossing/filtering. Researching automobilism would still take some effort, but seems doable.
You can always carry stuff by hand. It's just iron and copper plates for red/green science.

Those can also be done with purely direct insertion. Just build everything in a line / tree along a coal belt so you can fuel the inserter going from assembler to assembler, assembler to lab and lab to lab.


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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by mmmPI »

atomizer wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:03 pm
Vehicle inventories with filters can be used for complex crafting and belt crossing/filtering. Researching automobilism would still take some effort, but seems doable.
Brilliant !

you need to reduce stack size of inserter to 1 in order for them not to get stuck with 1 or 2 coal in hand like it is shown on my screenshot on the left.

Otherwise it's very rough, it was just proof-of-concept on how to manage material on a giant loop with burner inserter.

Each machine is prevented to overflow on the belt, it will only push content if there is a gap of x amount of belt without the item they produce. This allow to have several machine requiring different material on only 1/2 belt without saturation.

Then one can use the car trick to make some of those loop exchange item. :)
theloop.png
theloop.png (1.51 MiB) Viewed 315 times
Edit : the 2 window on the left are actually connected with the same wire, not different color, otherwise it doesn't work, duuh.


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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by mrvn »

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:53 pm
Would a train (or trains) be a horrible idea here?
Far more expensive to research than cars and the same cheat.


And don't forget you can put cars on belts.

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:32 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:53 pm
Would a train (or trains) be a horrible idea here?
Far more expensive to research than cars and the same cheat.
Hmm, yeah, I guess if we include train stops it is (otherwise it's 25 science packs less than automobilism), but then the tracks and cars, etc, would cost more, too. But more importantly, automobilism has the same pre-req techs, whereas in my head for some reason I was thinking it had more (or maybe more so that trains had less?). So, yes, you are correct that it would cost more.
mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:32 pm
And don't forget you can put cars on belts.
Yes, and you could do away with the belts altogether with trains. :P

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by mrvn »

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:16 pm
mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:32 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:53 pm
Would a train (or trains) be a horrible idea here?
Far more expensive to research than cars and the same cheat.
Hmm, yeah, I guess if we include train stops it is (otherwise it's 25 science packs less than automobilism), but then the tracks and cars, etc, would cost more, too. But more importantly, automobilism has the same pre-req techs, whereas in my head for some reason I was thinking it had more (or maybe more so that trains had less?). So, yes, you are correct that it would cost more.
mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:32 pm
And don't forget you can put cars on belts.
Yes, and you could do away with the belts altogether with trains. :P
That's what I thought you mend with trains. Rails, stops, signals, the whole shebang. Not just putting cargo wagons down as large / filtered chests. You can use just cargo wagons, just wasn't what I imagined when you said trains.

Didn't someone make a factory where the train picks up ore and oil barrels, takes a few stops at sub factories and ends up at the silo delivering the finished parts all just a train going from ore to rocket?

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Re: Has anyone ever attempted no splitter no underground belt only burner challenge?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:55 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:16 pm
mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:32 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:53 pm
Would a train (or trains) be a horrible idea here?
Far more expensive to research than cars and the same cheat.
Hmm, yeah, I guess if we include train stops it is (otherwise it's 25 science packs less than automobilism), but then the tracks and cars, etc, would cost more, too. But more importantly, automobilism has the same pre-req techs, whereas in my head for some reason I was thinking it had more (or maybe more so that trains had less?). So, yes, you are correct that it would cost more.
mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:32 pm
And don't forget you can put cars on belts.
Yes, and you could do away with the belts altogether with trains. :P
That's what I thought you mend with trains. Rails, stops, signals, the whole shebang. Not just putting cargo wagons down as large / filtered chests. You can use just cargo wagons, just wasn't what I imagined when you said trains.
Sorry, I was thinking distinct, separate loops, so signal research not needed. Though like I said, too, I was misremembering the pre-reqs between trains and cars as well.
mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:55 pm
Didn't someone make a factory where the train picks up ore and oil barrels, takes a few stops at sub factories and ends up at the silo delivering the finished parts all just a train going from ore to rocket?
That I do not know. I do know that in one of those mods that adds main menu background simulations, there was one where the nuclear setup (iirc) was (mostly) done with a single train on a closed loop (I think this was in the Hall of Fame mod). Then I think there was another micro-factory one that used a master sushi belt going around the inner perimeter of the factory as well (I think this was provided by a different mod for the main menu background simulations, but can’t recall which one).

All kinds of neat and interesting things out there. :P

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