Please help me put signals at my rail

[jotes82]

Hello,
After getting 10k SPM (and getting down to 25 UPS) at my first megabase and spending there 600+ hours i decided to build a new one, using 8 lane rails (4 lane each direction) with a 2-8-2 trains.

I prepared some blueprints including straightlines, station, stackers, crossing, but I stucked at... in and out of station.


I can't create in and out to station which wont be bottleneck for whole rail section. How can I set signals to let trains drive in or out to the station whitout stopping the ones driving forward?

TBH signals are not my storn points.

Heres pic rel:

https://imgur.com/a/NhBsxhV

All rails are right handed - so the right is going to be INTO the station, left OUT of the station.

Here's code:

Code: Select all

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[robot256]

Congratulations, you've just discovered why highway congestion gets worse when all you do is add lanes. When cars (or trains) spend so much time blocking traffic changing from one lane to another in order to make a turn, there might as well be only one or two lanes. They are only really useful as queuing areas waiting for a particular turn.

First, don't ever put tracks closer than 4 tiles apart (your exit tracks, and the two middle tracks of your mainline are both too close). Because of how the game works, it is physically impossible to correctly signal the layout you have now.

Second, don't connect every exit (or every junction turn) to all eight tracks. Pick one or two in one or both directions, preferably the closest ones. The train will have to change to the right track before it can exit. Trains on the other tracks can bypass it without being stopped. Think of it like having a local lane on a highway. The trains will naturally route to use the center lanes to avoid congestion until they need to make a turn.

Third, make sure the train has a deceleration and acceleration lane after it leaves the mainline. That way, it will usually cross other tracks quickly.

But honestly 4x4 universal rails don't actually improve throughput much over 2x2 universal rails. If you want to really improve throughput, longer trains and dedicated tracks are the way to go.

[Tertius]

Your most apparent issue is probably that every train on every lane will stop in front of the signals, if one train is entering the section between the signals, even if that train (or the other trains) isn't actually going into the station and isn't crossing some other train.

This is because the section between the signals is one big rail block, and train logic prevents multiple trains entering the same block.
You see the rail blocks, if you take a signal in your hand and hover the mouse near the tracks. This is your block layout:

1.png (733.09 KiB) Viewed 1459 times

To make the lanes independent from each other, you need to separate the lanes from each other with signals, like this:

2.png (718.64 KiB) Viewed 1459 times

You see all the horizontal lanes have their own block now and trains can drive in parallel.

However, this is only a quick and dirty signal setting to show you the block visualization. Actually, you need to set many of the signals as chain signal instead of regular signals to prevent deadlocks between incoming and outgoing trains from your station.

[jotes82]

Congratulations, you've just discovered why highway congestion gets worse when all you do is add lanes. When cars (or trains) spend so much time blocking traffic changing from one lane to another in order to make a turn, there might as well be only one or two lanes. They are only really useful as queuing areas waiting for a particular turn.

Thanks for your sarcasm, it wasn't nesesery Although thats my first post here I played Factorio a little bit, so...

I know how the traffic works, I just want to ask how to solve this specific "problem", not how to play at all But thinks for you concern.

First, don't ever put tracks closer than 4 tiles apart (your exit tracks, and the two middle tracks of your mainline are both too close). Because of how the game works, it is physically impossible to correctly signal the layout you have now.

Look again at attached pic or try to use blueprint - you will see that tracks are separated by 4 tiles

Third, make sure the train has a deceleration and acceleration lane after it leaves the mainline. That way, it will usually cross other tracks quickly.

That's the only advice I will use
Really, no sarcasm, I didn't think about deceleration and aceleration lanes. But I will join special lanes for that between station and mainbus.

But honestly 4x4 universal rails don't actually improve throughput much over 2x2 universal rails. If you want to really improve throughput, longer trains and dedicated tracks are the way to go.

Thanks for your opinion.

You see all the horizontal lanes have their own block now and trains can drive in parallel.

However, this is only a quick and dirty signal setting to show you the block visualization. Actually, you need to set many of the signals as chain signal instead of regular signals to prevent deadlocks between incoming and outgoing trains from your station.

Thank you Thants what I neded

[coppercoil]

First, don't ever put tracks closer than 4 tiles apart (your exit tracks, and the two middle tracks of your mainline are both too close). Because of how the game works, it is physically impossible to correctly signal the layout you have now.

There are no problems with 2 tiles spacing.

[robot256]

Thanks for your sarcasm, it wasn't nesesery

Very sorry, I have spent too much time on the wrong forums lately. But if you do find throughput problems eventually (which would be impressive), it might give one hint how to make all the rails even more effective.

Look again at attached pic or try to use blueprint - you will see that tracks are separated by 4 tiles

There are 2-tile gaps separating directions on both the mainline and branchline. I had a reflexive reaction because with that spacing, it is easy to place a curved rail that bridges two parallel tracks with no room for a signal in between, in one direction or both. You have positioned your curves perfectly to avoid this problem for right-hand drive. Tertius pointed this out correctly. Though one of the signals they placed at the center is in the wrong direction, there is space for it in the correct position.

Really, no sarcasm, I didn't think about deceleration and aceleration lanes. But I will join special lanes for that between station and mainbus.

I did a little more research, and it seems players with many lanes like this treat the outer rails as their acceleration and/or queuing lanes. You might be able to avoid them for the nearest track, and include it in your outpost only for the tracks crossing to/from the rails on the far side. This is another reason to try connecting to only one of the four rails.