How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:13 am
by mmmPI
this
tickstocross.jpg (58.77 KiB) Viewed 7000 times
doesn't look like it's a picture eh ?
Rounded and unrounded value, i measured the 32, 13.25 , 36.875 and the 16 to make sure then calculated the others based on relative belt speed.
I leave this here in case,i haven't been able to find those by research otherwise i wouldn't have measured, now maybe i've made mistakes hehe.
If you think you can get those value from the 15 item/sec belt speed and some math please explain to me which ones.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:19 am
by disentius
your post title is a bit clickbait-y since you try to answer the question, not asking it on this forum.
What do you mean by "move trough" exactly?
(begin position - to end position of the item)
I have seen the calculation of movement per tick somewhere, assuming a tile = 1 meter. Going to see if i can find it.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:36 am
by boskid
I am not sure what is the question here, but i can give you some numbers.
- All transport lines use fixed point positions with a resolution of 1/256.
- Inner corner has length of 106/256, Outer corner has length of 295/256. Straight belt has length of 1. Splitter input line has length of 179/256 and splitter output line has length of 0.5. Splitters are tricky as part of the input length is a buffer (51/256).
- Distance between items is set to 64/256.
- Yellow belt has a speed of 8/256 per tick, Red belt has speed of 16/256 per tick, blue belt has speed of 24/256 per tick.
If you know the length to travel and belt speed you can compute the amount of ticks.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:43 am
by mmmPI
disentius wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:19 am
your post title is a bit clickbait-y since you try to answer the question, not asking it on this forum.
Is it ? that's a rethorical question, i give the answer yes, because i couldn't find it, so i name the topic the same as my question was, this way if someone type in the same question, he will see the post haha.
disentius wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:19 am
What do you mean by "move trough" exactly?
If you have 2 straight belts, both reading-pulse, how much ticks there is between 2 pulse when an item pass.
That's the time 1 item will need to enter and leave the belt, being moved by the belt.
with just belt speed 15item/Sec 30 and 45. the data were not enough to compute since belts move several items at the same time and i didn't know the spacing between them.
Plus corner belts have different speed for each lane, while the belt speed is given in item per second, not being interested in the speed of a single item not making the difference between the 2 lane.
boskid wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:36 am
If you know the length to travel and belt speed you can compute the amount of ticks.
yes thank you for your numbers, it explain why i found some weird 53 and 295 and will help for splitters. The computation gives the same answer as my measure that's good.
like a corner red belt on the exterior lane has a distance of 295 different position, red belt speed is 16 position per tick speed, this means (295/16) is the number of ticks that 1 item need to fully be moved accross the corner red belt on the exterior lane. this is 18.4375 in my picture, or 295/16 on the second. This means every 295 ticks the item has enough time to cross 16 corner red belt on the outter lane. Or 4 lap if you make a loop.
This could be used to calculate the rotation speed of a player when he afk on a 4 loop belt !
Also to make sure item looping on a belt could used as reliable timer mechanism
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:22 pm
by quale
mmmPI wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:43 am
This could be used to calculate the rotation speed of a player when he afk on a 4 loop belt !
If only. Visual belt speed (CAV), item speed (CLV) and player speed (neither; always much faster than the belt and approaching an inner item’s AV on the very inside) are all distinct in corners.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:24 pm
by mmmPI
quale wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:22 pm
If only. Visual belt speed (CAV), item speed (CLV) and player speed (neither; always much faster than the belt and approaching an inner item’s AV on the very inside) are all distinct in corners.
Ahhh that's annoyingly interesting
And for a car or tank ? Is it player's speed ? vehicule speed ? or item speed ?
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:53 pm
by quale
mmmPI wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:24 pm
And for a car or tank ? Is it player's speed ? vehicule speed ? or item speed ?
Player’s speed. Items get special treatment. That’s all. I don’t know the details of that behavior, however.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:19 am
by mrvn
boskid wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:36 am
I am not sure what is the question here, but i can give you some numbers.
- All transport lines use fixed point positions with a resolution of 1/256.
- Inner corner has length of 106/256, Outer corner has length of 295/256. Straight belt has length of 1. Splitter input line has length of 179/256 and splitter output line has length of 0.5. Splitters are tricky as part of the input length is a buffer (51/256).
- Distance between items is set to 64/256.
- Yellow belt has a speed of 8/256 per tick, Red belt has speed of 16/256 per tick, blue belt has speed of 24/256 per tick.
If you know the length to travel and belt speed you can compute the amount of ticks.
Mechanically that still makes no sense at all. The belt is made of sliding plates that are fastened in the middle and the middle is pulled along by some force. In a curve the inner part compresses and the outer parts stretches. The inner corner moves slower than the middle and the outer corner moves faster than the middle. And at the end of the curve everything lines back up perfectly again. After all it's a single plate that goes around the corner fixed in the middle. Anything else would mean the plate breaks apart.
Factorio belts really behave like 2 separate belts, not one belt fitting 2 items side by side. But the graphics is a single belt. So in curves items slide around on the belt. It's like the inner items roll forward and the outer items roll backwards maintaining their speed instead of getting dragged around by the belt.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:41 am
by boskid
mrvn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:19 am
Mechanically that still makes no sense at all. The belt is made of sliding plates that are fastened in the middle and the middle is pulled along by some force. In a curve the inner part compresses and the outer parts stretches. The inner corner moves slower than the middle and the outer corner moves faster than the middle. And at the end of the curve everything lines back up perfectly again. After all it's a single plate that goes around the corner fixed in the middle. Anything else would mean the plate breaks apart.
Factorio belts really behave like 2 separate belts, not one belt fitting 2 items side by side. But the graphics is a single belt. So in curves items slide around on the belt. It's like the inner items roll forward and the outer items roll backwards maintaining their speed instead of getting dragged around by the belt.
Also when there is no place for the items to go, the whole line stops while in fact all those items should get squashed more and more and finally be thrown out of a belt and onto a ground. How could we be so blind here? This will create so many new challenges for a players since they will have to have extra overflow belts on both sides to catch those items that falls from the pile of items in the middle and will move them to some storage area. Let me fix this quickly.
</sarcasm>
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:31 am
by Kyralessa
boskid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:41 am
Also when there is no place for the items to go, the whole line stops while in fact all those items should get squashed more and more and finally be thrown out of a belt and onto a ground. How could we be so blind here? This will create so many new challenges for a players since they will have to have extra overflow belts on both sides to catch those items that falls from the pile of items in the middle and will move them to some storage area. Let me fix this quickly.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:48 am
by mrvn
And items on belts backing up and not moving happens in real live too. They have barriers at the side of the belts then though so thing do not fall off the side but get pushed back. You want a belt with a low friction surface for that case.
Regardless, items getting pushed back when the belt is full at least makes sense if you ignore that the end of the belt graphics should have a stopper. They stop moving because the item before it pushes it against the belt. In curves the items magically move on their own with no outside force acting on them. I didn't know iron ore was mobile.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm
by quale
boskid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:41 am
Also when there is no place for the items to go, the whole line stops while in fact all those items should get squashed more and more and finally be thrown out of a belt and onto a ground. How could we be so blind here? This will create so many new challenges for a players since they will have to have extra overflow belts on both sides to catch those items that falls from the pile of items in the middle and will move them to some storage area. Let me fix this quickly.
</sarcasm>
Items that are crushed or thrown off should receive damage. Belts should use energy. When the player eats too many fish, they need to craft a belt or their armor will fall off.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:59 pm
by mrvn
Don't try to swim too soon after eating a fish unless you walked 1000 steps.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:21 pm
by mmmPI
the more fish i eat the less need for belt i have but also the less speed that what my original interest !
the mechanism to mimic real life in a simulation are always arbitrary, but even in real life we have those numbers we use that seem a bit arbitrary, like 3.14 or the plank constant
but i have yet to hear the legend of the 1000 steps, anything to do with pollution ? i know fish tanks lot of it.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:10 pm
by mrvn
mmmPI wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:21 pm
the more fish i eat the less need for belt i have but also the less speed that what my original interest !
the mechanism to mimic real life in a simulation are always arbitrary, but even in real life we have those numbers we use that seem a bit arbitrary, like 3.14 or the plank constant
but i have yet to hear the legend of the 1000 steps, anything to do with pollution ? i know fish tanks lot of it.
"Nach dem Essen sollst du Ruhn oder tausend schritte tun."
1000 steps is just a reasonable timeframe to digest.
Re: How many ticks does it takes for an item to move through a belt ?
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:11 pm
by Tertius
Interesting topic, I never thought about the (obvious) fact that the outer lane of a corner is really longer, so it holds more items, and that this has real impact:
Usually you never see it, since you always have about the same amount of left and right turns.
