1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

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1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby brunzenstein » Thu May 18, 2017 1:10 pm

red underground are really expensive - is this a bug or feature?
and to get 40 GW into one assembler in 0.5 second is not so easy as well.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Rockstar04 » Thu May 18, 2017 1:34 pm

This is intentional. Since red and blue under ground belts now reach farther than they did before, they had to have their costs increased to remain "more expensive" than their yellow counter parts. I also don't see the need to get 40 gears into the assembler "within 0.5 seconds".
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Shokubai » Thu May 18, 2017 2:18 pm

Have not had trouble keeping production up on these.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby The Eriksonn » Thu May 18, 2017 5:34 pm

I dont see any reason to produce 4 of these per second becauce I will never ever use them up near that fast.

Also if I could it would probably kill my factory instantly... maybe.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Ranakastrasz » Thu May 18, 2017 5:37 pm

Heh. I'm of the thought that a lot of recipes that take 0.5 seconds should really take a lot longer. That said, yes, while max speed is important for, say, red belts, you don't need anywhere near that many tunnels.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Peter34 » Thu May 18, 2017 6:06 pm

Ranakastrasz wrote:Heh. I'm of the thought that a lot of recipes that take 0.5 seconds should really take a lot longer. That said, yes, while max speed is important for, say, red belts, you don't need anywhere near that many tunnels.


True. It's not actually important that it takes 0.5s to produce a Red UnderThingie, but it is one of many cases where it appears as if the devs couldn't be arsed to actually think about how long it should take, and therefore just left it at the default value, 0.5s.

3-4s would really make more sense. And as you say, it's not making any difference in the grand scheme of things, because they're not needed in very large quantities and can easily be produced in advance of need.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Ranakastrasz » Thu May 18, 2017 6:11 pm

They are called Underneathies, I believe
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Kelderek » Thu May 18, 2017 6:12 pm

Many items are 0.5s to benefit hand crafting. If you make it 3+ seconds each then that makes better sense for automation, but would be really annoying for hand crafting. While this game is about automation on the whole, you will still often need/want to craft items by hand on occasion and certain ones like these underground belts are a perfect fit for being a high speed craft time.

If you look at the initial 0.15 patch notes you'll notice that they intentionally reduced a lot of craft times for similar items to accommodate easier hand crafting (items that you never need insane amounts of).

The crafting time for underground belts is appropriate and now also the cost is appropriate for how much distance you can cover with them.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Ranakastrasz » Thu May 18, 2017 6:16 pm

Hmmmm.



We need a switch, like Hard vs Easy crafting, to set crafting times for machine vs Player crafting then.

XD.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby mexmer » Thu May 18, 2017 7:06 pm

Rockstar04 wrote:This is intentional. Since red and blue under ground belts now reach farther than they did before, they had to have their costs increased to remain "more expensive" than their yellow counter parts. I also don't see the need to get 40 gears into the assembler "within 0.5 seconds".

Ever heard about stack inserter? And of course you need to combine it with requester chest ;)

I get yoour point tho' but others explained reasons quite good.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Rockstar04 » Thu May 18, 2017 7:14 pm

mexmer wrote:
Rockstar04 wrote:This is intentional. Since red and blue under ground belts now reach farther than they did before, they had to have their costs increased to remain "more expensive" than their yellow counter parts. I also don't see the need to get 40 gears into the assembler "within 0.5 seconds".

Ever heard about stack inserter? And of course you need to combine it with requester chest ;)

I get yoour point tho' but others explained reasons quite good.


I'm sorry my answer didn't meet your expectations. I will PM you all my replys for approval before I actually post them on the forums from now on.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby mexmer » Thu May 18, 2017 7:25 pm

Rockstar04 wrote:
mexmer wrote:
Rockstar04 wrote:This is intentional. Since red and blue under ground belts now reach farther than they did before, they had to have their costs increased to remain "more expensive" than their yellow counter parts. I also don't see the need to get 40 gears into the assembler "within 0.5 seconds".

Ever heard about stack inserter? And of course you need to combine it with requester chest ;)

I get yoour point tho' but others explained reasons quite good.


I'm sorry my answer didn't meet your expectations. I will PM you all my replys for approval before I actually post them on the forums from now on.

Nvm. I was just reacting to 40 gears .... there is nothing wrong with your answer, have fun :mrgreen:
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby HurkWurk » Thu May 18, 2017 8:37 pm

one of the things a friend and me do is make a custom mod to make our our costs for items like this. its fairly easy to make a simple mod like that. a couple hours to setup, then only a few minutes to add each new recipie.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby iceman_1212 » Thu May 18, 2017 9:24 pm

Kelderek wrote:Many items are 0.5s to benefit hand crafting. If you make it 3+ seconds each then that makes better sense for automation, but would be really annoying for hand crafting. While this game is about automation on the whole, you will still often need/want to craft items by hand on occasion and certain ones like these underground belts are a perfect fit for being a high speed craft time.

If you look at the initial 0.15 patch notes you'll notice that they intentionally reduced a lot of craft times for similar items to accommodate easier hand crafting (items that you never need insane amounts of).

The crafting time for underground belts is appropriate and now also the cost is appropriate for how much distance you can cover with them.


Yep. I suspect this is also (atleast part of) the reason that productivity isn't allowed to be used on end-products, since value of prod modules in a recipe is related to resource consumption rate.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Ranakastrasz » Thu May 18, 2017 11:41 pm

I thought it was just forbidden for anything that you place on the map, because of the whole "You can't build half an inserter" thing. Not that its hardcoded or anything, but that was the impression I got. I mean, otherwise why can we use it in the rocket?
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby iceman_1212 » Fri May 19, 2017 2:18 am

Ranakastrasz wrote:I thought it was just forbidden for anything that you place on the map, because of the whole "You can't build half an inserter" thing. Not that its hardcoded or anything, but that was the impression I got. I mean, otherwise why can we use it in the rocket?


Not sure what you mean. We can't build half a green circuit either. Productivity just gives an extra unit for free everytime the purple bar completes. I'm talking more about gameplay balance than anything else. (Also, I think technically the productivity happens on production of rocket parts?)
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby PacifyerGrey » Fri May 19, 2017 10:22 am

By increasing production time you will force your assembler consume power for that long which will lead to increased energy per item. And this is not always intended.

Anyways most of end products do not need production time balancing cause... They are end products and will not be produced 100% of time anyways. Balancing makes sense in intermediates and science items which will be produced mostly indefinitely.

And for end products which you might need lots of by some chance (like belts, inserters etc) it makes sense to leave production time low despite of resources consumed. Its is actually your problem to feed end products with resources.
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Re: 1 red underground costs 40 gear wheels

Postby Ranakastrasz » Fri May 19, 2017 11:14 am

iceman_1212 wrote:
Ranakastrasz wrote:I thought it was just forbidden for anything that you place on the map, because of the whole "You can't build half an inserter" thing. Not that its hardcoded or anything, but that was the impression I got. I mean, otherwise why can we use it in the rocket?


Not sure what you mean. We can't build half a green circuit either. Productivity just gives an extra unit for free everytime the purple bar completes. I'm talking more about gameplay balance than anything else. (Also, I think technically the productivity happens on production of rocket parts?)


I mean that the list of recipes you can use productivity on excludes items you can place in the world as a rule, and that there doesn't seem to be another factor except for the new nuclear recipes.
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