Factorio Forums

The PFR is the one item I actively dislike. It violates the most basic rule- the conservation of energy. It needs no fuel or sunlight, it's cheap to make and impossible to lose or destroy, all the while powering your personal drones FOR FREE. I guess it takes up a lot of space in your equipment grid but still, the PFR is way OP and even worse, feels like cheating. Not just over-powered but an item which does not match the rest of the game, either in it's form or function. Other's have noticed it's visual appearance doesn't match the tone of the game and I agree.

Solutions:
- There are already mods which give you portable burners. If you can put wood in the tank of your car, you should be able to burn it in your backpack.
- Wireless charging near dedicated charge ports, or within range of a electrical pole.

There are lots of ways to solve this that don't require us to break physics. Factorio should adhere to a strict "conservation" of "stuff". You should never get something for free- there should be a real cost for every decision. Even solar panels which give you "free" electricity are expensive and only work at daytime. Every item needs a downside in some form or the other and the PFR literally has none.

I respectfully disagree with you. I think that a game change just for the sake of realism is never a good move. The only really 100 % realistic game is real life, and if it were that fun, there would be less games. Any actual game breaks realism at some point.
I'm fine with some level of realism breaking ease of use at the point where it's possible to have a power armor and the fusion reactor to power it. For whoever wants moar tedium, there's a virtual infinity of possibilities to make power armor powering as complex as one wishes. But the current vanilla is fine to me. If I really had to complain about one thing, I'd wish there was one step between portable solar panels and fusion reactor (as suggested here).

It's not a matter of realism, it's a matter of consistency. Everything in the game adheres to the laws of the conservation of matter and energy, except in this one occasion.

adamwong246 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:33 pm It's not a matter of realism, it's a matter of consistency. Everything in the game adheres to the laws of the conservation of matter and energy, except in this one occasion.

Nuclear reactors don't. The neighbourhood bonus is pure magic. For that matter, solar panels are basically infinite free power, too :p

Solar panels are SORT OF free. The only work half the time, so they indeed have a downside.
As for the nuclear neighbor bonus, you pay for the bonus by densely packing reactors. This is a serious design consideration.

If the PFR has ANY sort of downside, it is it's size. It's only really drawback is the space it takes up in the equipment grid.

How about a uran fuelled reactor that can be refilled with the bots ? It would solve this.

Is uran a shortened form of uranium or a misspelling of urine?

I agree with one of these.

adamwong246 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:33 pm It's not a matter of realism, it's a matter of consistency. Everything in the game adheres to the laws of the conservation of matter and energy, except in this one occasion.

Except science packs, that cram furnaces and walls and train tracks into little packages that then vanish forever to be turned into "science points"

And robots, that need to recharge unless you pick them up manually, and then they magically recharge for free.

And burner inserters, which somehow have enough power when placed to grab some coal.

And belts, which run forever for free.

And the Engineer, who never ever needs to eat anything or sleep. And if they do eat, 1 fish can somehow instantly heal the gravest wounds.

And...

Consider that the cost of the reactor is grid space, not construction material or fuel.

5thHorseman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:52 am
And belts, which run forever for free.

IMHO, belts should require power. Not every belt-tile need be under an electric pole, but at least one, and it should transmit power to all belt-tiles connected to it.

Did I mention I thought vanilla was too easy?

I do feel as if I'm swimming against the tide- it seems everyone else loves the PFR.

However, I have created the following mod https://mods.factorio.com/mod/no_free_lunch. It is a very simple mod that modifies the PFR to accept burner fuel.
I opted to modify the PFR, rather than create a new item, because the spidertron requires a PFR specifically and removing the PFR entirely would break this.

adamwong246 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:59 am

5thHorseman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:52 am And belts, which run forever for free.

IMHO, belts should require power.

I'd actually like to try a version of Factorio where belts needed power. And offshore pumps, maybe allow a tiny flow handwaved as surface tension, just enough to slowly start a steam engine that can then power the pump. Or give it a hand crank

But I don't think you can just add a power need to belts and have a good time in current Factorio. Well, maybe you could, or someone could, but I doubt the general player base would actually enjoy it. I doubt I would.

now that you mention it, yes, you are right- offshore pumps are another source of free power.

I'll have to add that to my mod as well

Also, you could probably do without belts at all! If you remove belts entirely, you'd have to make insanely long daisy chains of inserters to move your stuff around, inserters which of course require power. But it could be done!

Factorio without belts... Now I've heard of everything!

You can laugh but someone already beat me to the idea. https://mods.factorio.com/mod/strattegic-no-belt

while you are at it, make sure that super large items don't fit in your pocket. no carrying around locomotives or reactors.

adamwong246 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:37 am I do feel as if I'm swimming against the tide- it seems everyone else loves the PFR.

You shouldn’t let what other people think prevent you from having fun.

You also shouldn’t try to impose what you think on everyone else.

ptx0 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:26 am while you are at it, make sure that super large items don't fit in your pocket. no carrying around locomotives or reactors.

Nooooo... don't take away my train train... train.

5thHorseman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:45 am I'd actually like to try a version of Factorio where belts needed power. And offshore pumps, maybe allow a tiny flow handwaved as surface tension, just enough to slowly start a steam engine that can then power the pump. Or give it a hand crank

Some possibilities:

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/PoweredBelts

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/BurnerOffshorePumpUpdate

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/eradicato ... -generator