Factorio Forums

To protect the outskirts of the base it is nice to build artillery outposts immediately killing expanding biters coming into range. However, instead of building artillery turrets and supplying these with cargo wagons filled with artillery shells it is more convenient to refill the turrets by sending and unloading artillery wagons since their artillery shell stack size is 100 instead of 40 for a wagon. Of course artillery wagons are heavier but as soon as nuclear fuel is available (end-game, just like artillery) this is of almost no issue. I feel that the game would be more balanced by limiting artillery wagon shell stacksize to ~40 (or 50), or increase the amount of artillery shells a cargo wagon can carry (which has no easy solution since stacksize 1 for player inventory feels fine).

Alternatively: maybe make the artillery wagons insanely heavy when full of shells and base the weight of the artillery wagon on the amount of shells which is in there?

Why do artillery wagons need shells (more than the current one) anyway? Why not have them draw shells from adjoining wagons? There could be a special ammo car too and artillery could draw shells from any unbroken chain of connected ammo cars. Just like tanks draw shells from their trunk.

mrvn wrote:Why do artillery wagons need shells (more than the current one) anyway? Why not have them draw shells from adjoining wagons? There could be a special ammo car too and artillery could draw shells from any unbroken chain of connected ammo cars. Just like tanks draw shells from their trunk.

I think an ordinary cargo wagon providing the artillery train with ammo might work great. Could you post this also in ideas/suggestions? Maybe someone can write a mod to try it out

Why bother with the static guns at all to be honest? Just plop a few stations here and there, a dualhomed 2 gun artillery wagon... any biters get too cozy? Turn the station on or send the train there and watch the fireworks. I do find it odd that the artillery wagon has such a huge magazine in comparison to standard wagons and chests, but there's ways to take advantage of that too.

Aeternus wrote:Why bother with the static guns at all to be honest? Just plop a few stations here and there, a dualhomed 2 gun artillery wagon... any biters get too cozy? Turn the station on or send the train there and watch the fireworks. I do find it odd that the artillery wagon has such a huge magazine in comparison to standard wagons and chests, but there's ways to take advantage of that too.

On that note: Does an artillery wagon that fires count as activity?

What I mean is: What happens when you send a train to a stop with "Inactivity: 30s". Will it stay at the stop as long as the gun fires at aliens?

mrvn wrote:

Aeternus wrote:What I mean is: What happens when you send a train to a stop with "Inactivity: 30s". Will it stay at the stop as long as the gun fires at aliens?

Yes it does.

Aeternus wrote:Why bother with the static guns at all to be honest? Just plop a few stations here and there, a dualhomed 2 gun artillery wagon... any biters get too cozy? Turn the station on or send the train there and watch the fireworks. I do find it odd that the artillery wagon has such a huge magazine in comparison to standard wagons and chests, but there's ways to take advantage of that too.

But 'why bother' with turrets: well they are in the game. And if nobody uses them or if they are seen as useless then things are unbalanced and should be balanced (or removed). Which is the topic of this forum right?

ejg wrote:

Aeternus wrote:Why bother with the static guns at all to be honest? Just plop a few stations here and there, a dualhomed 2 gun artillery wagon... any biters get too cozy? Turn the station on or send the train there and watch the fireworks. I do find it odd that the artillery wagon has such a huge magazine in comparison to standard wagons and chests, but there's ways to take advantage of that too.

But 'why bother' with turrets: well they are in the game. And if nobody uses them or if they are seen as useless then things are unbalanced and should be balanced (or removed). Which is the topic of this forum right?

Turrets are cheap, have no movable alternative and come way before the artillery wagon. Also the artillery needs turrets for defense. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Aeternus wrote:Why bother with the static guns at all to be honest? Just plop a few stations here and there, a dualhomed 2 gun artillery wagon... any biters get too cozy? Turn the station on or send the train there and watch the fireworks. I do find it odd that the artillery wagon has such a huge magazine in comparison to standard wagons and chests, but there's ways to take advantage of that too.

I cant see a setup with artillery which would work without turret backup. You are pulling aggro with every shot, and the artillery fires slowly and can not protect itself when biters get close. The turrets and the artillery wagon compliment each other. Unless you are talking about the artillery turret, of course. In that case, it ocmpliments the other types of turrets, and not the wagon.

The artillery turret feels like pointless clutter more than anything. Has anyone even built more than 1 just to see the pretty graphics? When a player needs artillery support, why bother filling stationary turrets with ammo wagons? You can bring in the artillery wagon and kill two birds with one stone.

bobucles wrote:The artillery turret feels like pointless clutter more than anything. Has anyone even built more than 1 just to see the pretty graphics? When a player needs artillery support, why bother filling stationary turrets with ammo wagons? You can bring in the artillery wagon and kill two birds with one stone.

Exactly my point. But I think it's more because the artillery wagon is too over-powered due to its large ammo stack than that the artillery turret is useless.

It's just a combination of factors that makes everything feel out of balance.

Bob's mods change artillery shells to stack size 20, and ups the turret capacity to 50.
These numbers were chosen so that it brings the stack size total damage in line with cannon shells.

However, scaling everything the other way for base game would work too. Shell stack size 5, Artillery turret can keep it's current 15, and wagon reduced to 25.

...though it would make sense to reverse these numbers, wagon holding only 15 where the turret holds 25. though there is also the point that the wagon on the move can only use what it can carry, and will likely only be resupplied back at home base. A turret can have a belt running along side it, or even a requested chest say next to it with a constant feed of shells.

bobingabout wrote:It's just a combination of factors that makes everything feel out of balance.

Bob's mods change artillery shells to stack size 20, and ups the turret capacity to 50.
These numbers were chosen so that it brings the stack size total damage in line with cannon shells.

However, scaling everything the other way for base game would work too. Shell stack size 5, Artillery turret can keep it's current 15, and wagon reduced to 25.

...though it would make sense to reverse these numbers, wagon holding only 15 where the turret holds 25. though there is also the point that the wagon on the move can only use what it can carry, and will likely only be resupplied back at home base. A turret can have a belt running along side it, or even a requested chest say next to it with a constant feed of shells.

You can just put down 2 rails, place a artillery wagon on it and fill if with shells with an inserter. A bit larger but you get the extra storage space. Otherwise it's exactly like a turret.

I'm honestly okay with the gun wagon holding its own ammo. Riding a train filled with guns is more satisfying than trying to build a bunch of stationary arty. We've seen players opt for the mobile option en masse and they simply have more fun with it. In that respect I think the stationary model can be safely removed from the game.

If you want the stationary solution, just drop random tracks and guns. It's not a big deal.

I would think that a stationary artillery could have larger range than a train one. The train car would just tip over or jump of the track. Much easier to stabilize a stationary turret. Maybe that would balance things out.

mrvn wrote:I would think that a stationary artillery could have larger range than a train one. The train car would just tip over or jump of the track. Much easier to stabilize a stationary turret. Maybe that would balance things out.

That is something that you could do with a mod.

I disagree with this "balance" by inconvenience approach.

So then what?