Factorio Forums

I understand that the 6 second craft time for advanced circuits is supposed to serve as a middle ground between .5 seconds for electronic circuits and 10 seconds for processing units.

However, in the late game, advanced circuits are almost needed in quantities as much as electronic circuits. For a widely used basic ingredient to have a 6 second craft time requires enormous volumes of assemblers dedicated to it just to get a meager 40 per second output (192 plain Mk3 assemblers). The recommended basic amount is 2 full belts, which with blue belts would be 384 assemblers. Even when massively beaconed and stuffed with modules, advanced circuits are a burden unlike other basic ingredients.

Another solution would be to reduce the requirements of advanced circuits in various recipes. They get used up at a rate that seems unbalanced compared to their expected production.

I haven't personally found red circuits to be any worse than green circuits in # of assemblers before going for infinite research, since I'm still massing laser turrets/ solar panels. And after that point, you only need what, 50% more than green circuit assemblers? Double maybe? Non-issue imo.

Edit: Did a bit more guesstimation, looks like it's somewhere between double and triple. Not a big deal still, you need like 10x as many circuits as gears for instance. Just how it is.

On deathworlds/marathon you even need more copper cable assemblers just for green circuits than you need red circuit assemblers total.

Your "recommended basic amount" of 2 blue belts is WAAY overkill for anything other than a megabase. At that level, you're talking in the ballpark of 8-10 science/sec.

If you want to build a megabase, expect to need a lot of assemblers.

Selvek wrote:Your "recommended basic amount" of 2 blue belts is WAAY overkill for anything other than a megabase. At that level, you're talking in the ballpark of 8-10 science/sec.

If you want to build a megabase, expect to need a lot of assemblers.

If you consider a factory slightly larger than what you need to simply finish the game, a "megabase," then sure. Otherwise, anything capable of producing a rocket every 10 minutes and uses some bots and modules just obliterates any red circuit supply. Assemblers dedicated to red circuits outnumber those dedicated to green. A very small number of blue circuit assemblers keep up with demand just fine.

Ok, maybe "Kilobase" would be a better term Is there an agreed upon threshold for "Megabase"? I used to kinda think of it as 1 rocket per minute, which is about 2x what you need for 10 science/sec but requires a similar base size because of the other science packs.

I'd consider a rocket every 10 minutes to be way, waaay beyond "what you need to finish the game". I can vouch that you can launch a single rocket and "finish" with a pretty tiny, slow base!

Anyway, I'd say that reds are definitely a wake up call when working through the game, but I wouldn't say they need to rebalanced.

Selvek wrote:Ok, maybe "Kilobase" would be a better term Is there an agreed upon threshold for "Megabase"? I used to kinda think of it as 1 rocket per minute, which is about 2x what you need for 10 science/sec but requires a similar base size because of the other science packs.

I'd consider a rocket every 10 minutes to be way, waaay beyond "what you need to finish the game". I can vouch that you can launch a single rocket and "finish" with a pretty tiny, slow base!

Anyway, I'd say that reds are definitely a wake up call when working through the game, but I wouldn't say they need to rebalanced.

I suppose. An experienced player would go into a new game knowing that they will need to plan for half their factory to be red circuit production. Once that becomes the norm and the standard, there are no objections. New players are in for a big surprise.

You can also argue that steel production for 1 full belt (from ore) takes 10 times the size of Iron Plates production. Or 5 times the size if produced from Iron Plates.
This game intentionally makes more complex stuff take more space to give you more complex task for logistics.

Also you do not need red circuits in the same amounts as green circuits so in generic base the production area is mostly of the same size.

Factory Lobster wrote:I suppose. An experienced player would go into a new game knowing that they will need to plan for half their factory to be red circuit production. Once that becomes the norm and the standard, there are no objections. New players are in for a big surprise.

This right here is pretty much the reason for my electronics overhaul. Electronics 2 (red) doesn't cost electronics 1 (green) and therefore, doesn't increase the demand. Electronics 3 (blue) doesn't cost electronics 2 (red) and therefore doesn't increase the demand.

Instead, you have to produce more of the raw materials that go into electronics 1 and 2 (resistors and transistors) to produce 3, plus new intermediates (Integrated electronics, double sided fibreglass board). I also introduce Electronics 4, but the difficulty curve here is a little shallow, as you only need one extra intermediate (CPUs) which mostly use the infrastructure already set up by electronics 3. The only new raw resource you need is Silicon Nitride (ceramics) which only requires adding the nitrogen chain. In a complexity comparison to base game, it's the equivalent of saying "Now you need lube" in a situation where you're already producing oil products. (as you're only adding 1 new line for 1 new intermediate)

A single Processing Unit requires 20 Electronic Circuits PLUS the Advanced Circuits, and Electronic Circuits are used in a lot more recipes. I go for 2 green 1 red circuit belts which is perfectly fine for your average game, and while it has a bit of a slow start with modules, Processing Units and Advanced Circuits should be your first targets to Productivity and Beacon at which point it becomes much easier.