Steam tanks and heat loss

[quyxkh]

Storing hot water was one thing, it was a lot more dense than accumulators but you couldn't really profit off it since just building enough boilers was the better tactic, they only burn what fuel they need; the thought of people "exploit"ing hot-water tanking for profit was even a little amusing.

But nuclear plants are nonstop-while-fueled, use-it-or-lose-it, and it seems to me that that makes fueling the reactors only to top up the big-bank-o'-steam tanks by far the best in-game option, which just doesn't sit right.

How about shutting off steam tanking and letting nucs load-follow down to 30% or 60% like real plants?

[impetus maximus]

i would like to see heat loss implemented for stored water/steam.



ok maybe not to the point of imploding, but still.

[quyxkh]

A little self-study says load-following's a big-boy feature for plants 20+ times the size of the ones in Factorio, and if you put 20 Factorio nucs together the result can be vastly more maneuverable than anything available on our little planet.

[Nasabot]

Yes, storing steam seams a viable solution to manage the nuclear plant. If I am right one storagetank full of 500°C steam stores almost 5 GJ. I like the idea of storing steam. Maybe its not realistic, but a game does not have to be realistic.

[leoch]

Hmm, storing hot gasses should at least require insulated, pressurised tanks. Without pressure the storage density of gasses is very low.

Of course a high-pressure tank full of hot gas holds a lot of kinetic energy, so it should explode on over-pressure

[Roxor128]

I'm not opposed to the idea of a tank of fluid slowly cooling down to 15 degrees C if the contents is warmer than that.

[Ingolifs]

I think that 500 degree steam should be barrelable.

[Vxsote]

Yes, storing steam seams a viable solution to manage the nuclear plant. If I am right one storagetank full of 500°C steam stores almost 5 GJ. I like the idea of storing steam. Maybe its not realistic, but a game does not have to be realistic.

I'm divided on this. I think that steam storage is a fun mechanic that can work well in the game, and I do use steam tanks to buffer and regulate my nuke output. And I agree with you that a game does not have to be realistic.

But on the other hand, I really do wish for just the opposite: that fluids were more realistic. And I think it would add to the game. (I've posted about this a little bit previously viewtopic.php?f=38&t=39825&start=20#p236574).

It's rather somewhat insane to think of treating steam like a normal liquid, and a "normal" tank is going to be totally inadequate for containing a high quantity of hot gas because the gas will necessarily be under high pressure. Heat loss should also be a factor, as others have suggested. I think maybe a new type of tank, much more expensive to build, insulated and pressure-rated would be cool. And perhaps include a pressure-relief mechanism so if you overdo it, you lose some. It could still be a bit unrealistic I think, without being quite as silly as it is now.

But I also have an idea for a different approach: molten salt. It's used for heat transfer and storage in solar power plants, see viewtopic.php?f=38&t=39825&start=20#p236574. It's also stored at atmospheric pressure. The general idea for Factorio would be the ability to obtain salt, heat it, tank it (insulated tanks could still be a thing, and insulated liquid rail cars perhaps), and then extract heat from it on demand. Steam could be involved, via heat exchangers, for both heating heating the salt or extracting heat from it (and then being used in a steam turbine). You might also be able to heat the salt electrically or even via direct solar.

Perhaps the molten salt idea is venturing into territory more suitable for mods, and I see that an Angel's mod has some sort of molten salt (although I don't know to what extent) in place. Either way, I think that improving the current heat and steam mechanisms to be at least a little more realistic would make the game better.