Cargo wagons need more slots

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ssilk
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Re: Cargo wagons need more slots

Post by ssilk »

I played with it. If we really need that amount of items, we will have the same problems as now: The volume of items is reduced by factor 50, but the needed amount of items rise with the same factor.

No cheating, cause completely impossible without using that. :)

PS: O.k. the good question is: Do we need to have factor 50 more items? If not: Why do we need bigger wagons? There is not a big difference because if I have 15 or 20 stacks per wagon is just a difference of factor 1.33; 30 is factor 2. I could just add one ore more wagon. No need to change anything for that. Same is with chests: Just place 4 instead of 1. ;)
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hitzu
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Re: Cargo wagons need more slots

Post by hitzu »

I don't know if we really need packing if we can simply increase the width of a bus or the number of wagons and trains.

As for containers, I think they are totally imbalanced. I'm not against capacious chests, but in my mind they have to occupy more space accordingly their capacity to store items. So if the player wants a huge storage then it should take a lot of space like solar fields do. Also piling up stuff I described here could go along with them.
Also I have an idea of piling up stuff. Namely raw materials and junk. If that sort of item was on the land then it turns into a small 1x1 pile - a simple container that can store only that sort of items and has one slot (with that one item). Collecting it will destroy the pile. If there is enough place around then two full adjacent piles combine and turn into 2x2 pile with 8 slots, then with the growth these two full piles combine into 4x4 pile with 64 slots, then into 8x8 piles with 512 slots (good luck to fill them :D ) and then maybe two of them can turn into a monstrous 16x16 pile with 4096 slots if this is even possible in this game
It would be the most effective way to store materials in the game.

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Re: Cargo wagons need more slots

Post by bobucles »

The current cost of launching into space means that players will have a HUGE problem bringing up any amount of raw goods. Rockets are one of the WORST delivery platforms possible because they require huge thrust and massive amounts of reaction fuel on a planet that already has a good atmosphere. They work, but the cargo is super limited and expensive.

The future is in hybrid platforms. Using a high altitude jet means you can escape most of the gravity well with minimal fuel use, and it provides an easy ride for fragile components. Once you reach lower orbit, a much smaller rocket can take your goods the rest of the way.

If you just want to launch raw unprocessed materials into space and already have something up there to handle it, the most efficient delivery is with a gun. Orbital launch cannons are very straightforward devices attainable with TODAYS technology. Just dig a few miles into the crust, fill a canister with raw material, count out the kegs of high explosive, and BOOM. The only reason we don't have these things right now is because it's a GUN, and a lot of countries would shit their pants if we built a cannon capable of launching 500 tons of solid suborbital payload. Also, we don't have the orbital factories to process the raw material even if we wanted to.

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Re: Cargo wagons need more slots

Post by Grimtongue »

bobucles wrote:... If you just want to launch raw unprocessed materials into space and already have something up there to handle it, the most efficient delivery is with a gun...
This makes me think of HARP and project Big Babylon. The "space guns" weren't cost effective because the barrel could only be used a couple of times. Since Iraq was probably going to use it to launch military satellites, the project was ended prematurely when the parts were confiscated. It would have been interesting to see if they could find a way to improve cost effectiveness of space guns to be competitive with rockets.


Anyway, I think that giant guns don't fit well into the Factorio aesthetic. It just feels too "low tech" regardless of realism.

bobucles
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Re: Cargo wagons need more slots

Post by bobucles »

Anyway, I think that giant guns don't fit well into the Factorio aesthetic. It just feels too "low tech" regardless of realism.
Well the main gameplay benefit is offering orbital supply in a cheap package. Rockets are workable for bringing a high tech payload into space (like the player and a starting platform), but low tech goods will be nightmarish to haul the same way. A giant space gun offers a low tech solution. It can deliver any raw material which can handle insane G's no problem, and all the player has to do is catch it and process it on site. Any advanced item would simply be crushed by being shot out of a cannon, which means a space layer would only have free access to starting quality materials. In effect space would be "starting over" on the tech tree.

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Re: Cargo wagons need more slots

Post by Mercury044 »

sillyfly wrote:Yup, I also think most containers have way too much storage.
What I think is pretty reasonable:

Wood chest - 4 slots.
Iron chest - 8 slots
Steel/Smart/Logistic chest - 10 slots.
Cargo wagon - 20-30 slots.
Car/Tank - 20-30 slots.
Player inventory - 30 slots.

Plus, maybe allow some bigger storage facilities, like a 2x2 storage depot with 30-40 slots, and maybe some 1x5 or 1x6 buffers (10-20 slots) for unloading trains and buffering for assembly.
I personally like this one with 1 small tweek.
Steel/Smart/Logistics chests need a bit more room (12-15 Slots) mostly for the storage system for logisics

the other thought i have is have the storage depot be the logistics storage chest.

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Kewlhotrod
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Re: Cargo wagons need more slots

Post by Kewlhotrod »

just increase the slots on the storage wagon, everything else is fine.
edit- what I don't want to happen is the decrease in storage slots for chests because storing stuff in general would be a pain in the ass.

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Re: Cargo wagons need more slots

Post by hitzu »

Kewlhotrod wrote:just increase the slots on the storage wagon, everything else is fine.
Please no. Trains are so short now, don't make them even shorter.

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