Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

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HeilTec
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Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by HeilTec »

Inserters can stretch out and retract their arms.
This is a slow process. Fast inserters are severely slowed down if stretching and retracting.
It is easily seen here when the train is unloading. Steejo & Arumba in conference. (Youtube.com)
It would seem fair if the inserters were a bit faster in reaching and retracting to allow closer to equal performance.
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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by JimiQ »

Yes, please yes. Trains are badly hurt by that.

On the other hand only thing that is really needed is that inserters wouldn't have to reach into the middle of a wagon, just straight up/down.

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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by sillyfly »

I think the more reasonable fix to the problem with trains is to allow inserters to "grab" from anywhere in the collision box of the wagon, not just the middle.

Edit: Oops, was so eager to post I didn't notice JimiQ basically said the exact same thing :)

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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by bobingabout »

sillyfly wrote:I think the more reasonable fix to the problem with trains is to allow inserters to "grab" from anywhere in the collision box of the wagon, not just the middle.

Edit: Oops, was so eager to post I didn't notice JimiQ basically said the exact same thing :)
keep in mind that the collission box only makes up a fraction of the vehicle, they can current interact with area outside of this.

But, yeah, Currently the rotation speed is double that of the extention speed, perhaps they should make them the same.
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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by sillyfly »

The collision box of a cargo wagon is pretty close to it's selection box -

Code: Select all

collision_box = {{-0.6, -2.4}, {0.6, 2.4}},
selection_box = {{-0.7, -2.5}, {1, 2.5}},
The point is - inserters should not be confined to having to grab from the very center of a container/machine. Same goes for assembly machines, furnaces and chemical plants, but as these are at most 3x3 and need much slower emptying, it doesn't really matter for them.

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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by orzelek »

sillyfly wrote:The collision box of a cargo wagon is pretty close to it's selection box -

Code: Select all

collision_box = {{-0.6, -2.4}, {0.6, 2.4}},
selection_box = {{-0.7, -2.5}, {1, 2.5}},
The point is - inserters should not be confined to having to grab from the very center of a container/machine. Same goes for assembly machines, furnaces and chemical plants, but as these are at most 3x3 and need much slower emptying, it doesn't really matter for them.
When using big 3x3 chest to sort ores (much nicer then normal one) inserters also get hurt by this badly.

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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by bobingabout »

orzelek wrote:When using big 3x3 chest to sort ores (much nicer then normal one) inserters also get hurt by this badly.
Any entity larger than 1x1 really, it's just more easilly seen on trains wagons because they're quite large.

I still think the easiest fix is to adjust the extention speed to be the same, or greater than the rotation speed, it just needs doing.
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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by sillyfly »

This is just hiding the real problem by changing something else.
The extension speed may need adjusting, but the problem of containers only accessible from the center is still a problem.

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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by Koub »

It is logic to take more time for an inserter to make a longer movement. That's physics : at given speed, longer distances take longer time to be traveled through. But the thig that makes it a problem is the fact that the content of a given container is only accessible through a point centered at the center of the container, whatever the size of the container.
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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by Nemoricus »

Koub wrote:It is logic to take more time for an inserter to make a longer movement. That's physics : at given speed, longer distances take longer time to be traveled through. But the thig that makes it a problem is the fact that the content of a given container is only accessible through a point centered at the center of the container, whatever the size of the container.
While I'm fine with this for assemblers, it just looks downright bizarre for train wagons, especially when you have insterters loading on one side and unloading on the other. It also raises the question of why the inserters can move in such extreme ways while unloading train wagons, but can still only access containers that they are immediately adjacent to.

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Re: Inserter Stretch Retract Timing.

Post by SHiRKiT »

Nemoricus wrote:While I'm fine with this for assemblers, it just looks downright bizarre for train wagons, especially when you have insterters loading on one side and unloading on the other. It also raises the question of why the inserters can move in such extreme ways while unloading train wagons, but can still only access containers that they are immediately adjacent to.
The solution is to allow inserters to grab from anywhere in the collision box. Compute the point when placing the inserter or when an entity is removed near it and voilá, not CPU heavy, but memory heavy.

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