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More Realistic Biter behavior by small changes
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:22 pm
by TheRailmaker
Biters should attack everything, exept rails/ tiles.
To me, it took a whille till i realized that biters path thier way to millitary structures (like radars) or strong poluting Structures (like coal boilers).
They wont traget a robobort on their own. only if it blocks thier way, or is close while they are in "aggro state".
Balance : Atm, you know more or less ,where biters will walk, and what they attack and you can easyly defend the main factory and the outposts only.
Consistency : In my Eyes, it makes no sence, that a biter is able to know the diffrence between a radar and an water tank. They should attack whatever is closer or,if both - maybe even "randomly".
Also its "unnatural", that they dont attack a power pole, an emty train wagon or some moving belts, when passing by. They dont know, whats emmiting the polution.
Bonus : Power supply for outposts
Atm, you dont have to care about building multible power networks. You can just build one "power producing area" and lay large poles anywhere.
If biters would attack them, you would be forced to defend your power lines too or build autonome power supply for outposts.
In my Eyes Factorio would offer a better Experience, if biters attack behavior would be more natural.
Re: More Realistic Biter behavior by small changes
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:00 pm
by FuryoftheStars
They do attack everything while aggro'd, but they prioritize military and polluters, first. They will even sometimes attack things unaggro'd if it's too close to their base. But it should be noted: biters are not the invader. The player is. As such, it's (almost) possible to live in harmony beside them if you don't do anything to T them off. So it makes perfect sense to me that they would prioritize the structures that are harmful to them over everything else.
As for not knowing what's emitting the pollution: it's called a sense of smell.
Re: More Realistic Biter behavior by small changes
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:31 pm
by TheRailmaker
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:00 pm
They do attack everything while aggro'd, but they prioritize military and polluters, first. They will even sometimes attack things unaggro'd if it's too close to their base. But it should be noted: biters are not the invader. The player is. As such, it's (almost) possible to live in harmony beside them if you don't do anything to T them off. So it makes perfect sense to me that they would prioritize the structures that are harmful to them over everything else.
As for not knowing what's emitting the pollution: it's called a sense of smell.
"a sense of smell "
you can smell radar waves ? or an empty gun turret ? or that the polution is comming from a single building next to 10 others, even if youre far away ?
Re: More Realistic Biter behavior by small changes
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:01 pm
by FuryoftheStars
TheRailmaker wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:31 pm
you can smell radar waves ? or an empty gun turret ?
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:00 pm
As for not knowing what's emitting the
pollution
TheRailmaker wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:31 pm
or that the polution is comming from a single building next to 10 others, even if youre far away ?
You obviously haven't seen what animals are capable of on our own planet. Yes, this is
completely within the realm of possibility. Aside from that, so what? So the pollution irritates them from far away, they come, then they identify the actual polluter and go after it. Is this functionally any different than just targeting it from the outset? No, not really.
Re: More Realistic Biter behavior by small changes
Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:36 am
by ssilk
I don’t see the reason why this should be changed. It ads no more “realism” to a game , if the game is more realistic. What a game needs is, that it is playable, makes fun. It ads no fun to the game, if the biters go for the power lines. And as explained, there are rules which will make them attack those things.
There are also mods that do it to make it even harder for them:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Invulnera ... -continued
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/biterproof
Re: More Realistic Biter behavior by small changes
Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:33 pm
by FuryoftheStars
ssilk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:36 am
I don’t see the reason why this should be changed. It ads no more “realism” to a game , if the game is more realistic. What a game needs is, that it is playable, makes fun. It ads no fun to the game, if the biters go for the power lines. And as explained, there are rules which will make them attack those things.
There are also mods that do it to make it even harder for them:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Invulnera ... -continued
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/biterproof
Also,
Rampant, aside from being an AI improvement mod, also includes options to make rails, large power poles, and rail signals invulnerable.
Re: More Realistic Biter behavior by small changes
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:32 pm
by TheRailmaker
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:01 pm
You obviously haven't seen what animals are capable of on our own planet. Yes, this is
completely within the realm of possibility. Aside from that, so what? So the pollution irritates them from far away, they come, then they identify the actual polluter and go after it. Is this functionally any different than just targeting it from the outset? No, not really.
I dont know any animal or alien behavior from any Movie or documentary, where a horde of +10 animals attacks mulible specific points, while passing multiple simular looking structures of an enemy faction..... if you attack a megabase in the first way, why would you ignore the frist thing you see, if it looks like everything else to you.
Re: More Realistic Biter behavior by small changes
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:44 pm
by FuryoftheStars
You haven’t seen animals (or sharks) going after specific prey in a group?
Re: More Realistic Biter behavior by small changes
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:47 pm
by aka13
TheRailmaker wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:22 pm
Biters should attack everything, exept rails/ tiles.
To me, it took a whille till i realized that biters path thier way to millitary structures (like radars) or strong poluting Structures (like coal boilers).
They wont traget a robobort on their own. only if it blocks thier way, or is close while they are in "aggro state".
Balance : Atm, you know more or less ,where biters will walk, and what they attack and you can easyly defend the main factory and the outposts only.
Consistency : In my Eyes, it makes no sence, that a biter is able to know the diffrence between a radar and an water tank. They should attack whatever is closer or,if both - maybe even "randomly".
Also its "unnatural", that they dont attack a power pole, an emty train wagon or some moving belts, when passing by. They dont know, whats emmiting the polution.
Bonus : Power supply for outposts
Atm, you dont have to care about building multible power networks. You can just build one "power producing area" and lay large poles anywhere.
If biters would attack them, you would be forced to defend your power lines too or build autonome power supply for outposts.
In my Eyes Factorio would offer a better Experience, if biters attack behavior would be more natural.
Well, try "easily defending your factory" on deathworld marathon, I'd enjoy seeing that