Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby mrvn » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:17 am

You can see the rescanning quite clearly if you open the map and zoom out a bit. The rescanned chunks will become bright for a short time after scan.

Maybe instead of changing the scanning speed the scan pattern should be weighted to nearer chunks. For example scan the chunks just outside the always visible region twice as often as the farthest chunks.
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby Rseding91 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:33 am

mrvn wrote:You can see the rescanning quite clearly if you open the map and zoom out a bit. The rescanned chunks will become bright for a short time after scan.

Maybe instead of changing the scanning speed the scan pattern should be weighted to nearer chunks. For example scan the chunks just outside the always visible region twice as often as the farthest chunks.


The current system scans the oldest-scanned-chunk.
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby mrvn » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:45 am

Rseding91 wrote:
mrvn wrote:You can see the rescanning quite clearly if you open the map and zoom out a bit. The rescanned chunks will become bright for a short time after scan.

Maybe instead of changing the scanning speed the scan pattern should be weighted to nearer chunks. For example scan the chunks just outside the always visible region twice as often as the farthest chunks.


The current system scans the oldest-scanned-chunk.


I know. Which means all chunks are scanned the same amount of time.

I'm saying that chunks near my base are more important to scan because if an alien spawns there it is a clear and present danger. While on the outskirts nothing bad will happen and fast detection isn't so important. So maybe use time-since-last-scan / distance-from-radar and scan the tile with the highest score.
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby Zavian » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:02 am

Mrvn: you could always add some more radars inside your base. Since much of their scan range will be permanently revealed by other radars, they will scan the remaining chunks much more frequently.
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby mrvn » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:43 am

Zavian wrote:Mrvn: you could always add some more radars inside your base. Since much of their scan range will be permanently revealed by other radars, they will scan the remaining chunks much more frequently.


Hmm. Would it actually cause a gradient like I suggested?

Say you have an infinite high base covered by a regular grid of radars. Then at the side the radar second nearest to the edge scans chunks near the base. But that then means the radar nearest to the edge skips those chunks and scans only chunks farther away. I guess it depends on the amount of overlap. If the inner radar overlaps the outer radars scan range by 50% then nothing changes. If the inner radar overlaps the outer radars scan range by 33% then it will scan tiles twice as often.

I guess you can also place even more radars inside and thin them out towards the outside to skew the scan rates even more. But making it a smooth gradient would require a lot of radars and then scanning speed and power required would be insane. The pattern for the corners would also be complex.

And what if you extend your base? Now you have to move all your radars.
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby quyxkh » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:57 pm

I agree the rescans aren't good as an active defense, they're too slow, but they make a great team with gun sentries. Many biter-expansion groups get distracted and killed by the ones I leave behind in wiped camps, enough that leakers don't get through fast enough to become any substantial threat before the rescan picks them up.
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby Kazuar » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:48 pm

Holy moly you guys/gals.

This thread made me realize how long I've had fun with this game while making me feel old.

I've actually posted in this thread 3 years ago.

What a time.
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby JohnyDL » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:44 am

I'm kind of thinking it may be one of those jobs that calls for speed and efficiency modules, speed modules obviously would add speed and efficiency would allow the radar to scan a chunk and maybe the 4 direct touching it or 8 around it but that scan takes slightly longer if you need rescanning speed just add beacons to the radar at the edge of your base
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby Zavian » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:29 am

Well for consistency with the rest of the game, efficiency should reduce the power consumption. Productivity could get you bonus chunks (or maybe bonus range).
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby Lav » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:09 am

Zavian wrote:Well for consistency with the rest of the game, efficiency should reduce the power consumption. Productivity could get you bonus chunks (or maybe bonus range).

Bonus chunks equate to increased speed, which is the domain of speed modules.

Frankly I have no ideas for productivity module effects. Slower operation is a given, but what's a productivity for radar? Uncovering more biters? :-)
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby JohnyDL » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:33 am

Sorry yeah
Productivity being more squares at once

which does equate to more speed yes if it's not balanced but if it's locked to the squares nearest the one actually being scanned then that might mean only 1 or 2 out of the 4 are doing work that is beneficial, and not just new squares that are next in list is kind of balancing, it doesn't have to be every time like with productivity elsewhere, it comes with the speed slowdown too and it equates quite well with an extra product now and then like assemblers getting an extra intermediate product now and then
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby Xeorm » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:47 pm

Lav wrote:
Zavian wrote:Well for consistency with the rest of the game, efficiency should reduce the power consumption. Productivity could get you bonus chunks (or maybe bonus range).

Bonus chunks equate to increased speed, which is the domain of speed modules.

Frankly I have no ideas for productivity module effects. Slower operation is a given, but what's a productivity for radar? Uncovering more biters? :-)

Could be speed giving more chunks faster, but productivity increases the sight range of the radar.
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby JohnyDL » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:38 pm

I've been thinking about what Lav said about scanning bonus sectors being 'more speed', but I feel that's perfectly in line with how productivity in assemblers works. You don't see the extra item for free there as 'more speed' when actually it kind of does directly equate to that, rather than just say a crafting speed of 1 (assuming we ignore the speed cost of productivity modules) then you get a crafting speed of 1.3 for materials cost of 1
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby Lav » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:23 am

JohnyDL wrote:I've been thinking about what Lav said about scanning bonus sectors being 'more speed', but I feel that's perfectly in line with how productivity in assemblers works. You don't see the extra item for free there as 'more speed' when actually it kind of does directly equate to that, rather than just say a crafting speed of 1 (assuming we ignore the speed cost of productivity modules) then you get a crafting speed of 1.3 for materials cost of 1

Bonus item produced is technically extra speed, but it's also a save on resources, which is something we don't see in radar.

Perhaps productivity modules giving radar a greater range would be an option as per Xeorm's idea. That would require that productivity 1/2/3 modules have different effects though, which translates for +3 radar range for a single prod-3 module, which feels kinda excessive for the investment (and might actually save on energy costs, which would run counter to the general rules of prod modules).
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Re: Radar scanning (and re-scanning) speed

Postby JohnyDL » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:09 am

Why wouldn't keeping it as closely inline with everything else be you slow down the radar and scan an extra sector now and then. You slow down the assembler and get extra products now and then. And it's not like it's 'free' it's still going to cost you more power per sector scanned even if there wasn't a power cost to productivity modules you reduce the speed by more than you get extra scans. The only way to get more bonus with speed would be combining speed with productivity which again is inline with everything else.

I'm not saying range wouldn't/shouldn't/couldn't be implemented but it is more out of place than extra scanning imo especially if it's per module boost. The area of sectors scanable by a radar is what? 225, so add your 10% and round to the nearest radius 248 well that's nearer to 7.5 than 8.5, but 270, that's closer to 8.5 and 293 doesn't get you anything extra. Or add the squares into the range to extend the square into a circle (though this might be needlessly complicated) rather than just arbitrarily adding a lot of range. In fact I'd rather productivity didn't work at all than that, like it doesn't for end products.
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