Pump recipe correction

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Pump recipe correction

Postby Fedorrro » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:11 am

I noticed that all the items that are crafted using the engine run on fuel (car, tank, locomotive), and all the items that are assembled with the electric engine work on electricity (robots).
But pump crafted with hard fuel engine need electricity. I think pump recipe need electric engine instead of just engine.
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby Patashu » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:59 am

I think Pump requires only normal engines because of a catch 22:

You have oil but it's only far away from the base. So you'd like to pump it onto a fluid wagon and bring it over by train. But you haven't set up oil processing->lubricant->electric engines, so you can't pump it. So now you have to do something awful (like barrel it or pipe it or produce electric engines on-site).
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby mrvn » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:57 am

Doesn't that mean we should have a burner pump, fuel pump and electric pump?
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby Fedorrro » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:18 am

Yes, we can fuel pump by coal, and then add electric pump.
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby Patashu » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:18 am

mrvn wrote:Doesn't that mean we should have a burner pump, fuel pump and electric pump?

Sounds like something AAI Industries would do...
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby Factory Lobster » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:47 pm

Fuel-based pumpjacks could consume some of their own oil production to power themselves.
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby Qon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:20 pm

mrvn wrote:Doesn't that mean we should have a burner pump, fuel pump and electric pump?

No.
Factory Lobster wrote:Fuel-based pumpjacks could consume some of their own oil production to power themselves.

No. Also, this is not a thread about pump jacks.

No more joke suggestions please.

Patashu wrote:I think Pump requires only normal engines because of a catch 22:

You have oil but it's only far away from the base. So you'd like to pump it onto a fluid wagon and bring it over by train. But you haven't set up oil processing->lubricant->electric engines, so you can't pump it. So now you have to do something awful (like barrel it or pipe it or produce electric engines on-site).

Yes. The pump actually did use electric engine before, when piping (or barreling) was the only way to transport the oil and pumps were not necessary.
Source: https://wiki.factorio.com/Pump#History

/thread
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby mrvn » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:56 pm

Qon wrote:
mrvn wrote:Doesn't that mean we should have a burner pump, fuel pump and electric pump?

No.


Why not? Having a simpler pump before an electric pump would solve the catch 22.
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby Fedorrro » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:05 pm

mrvn wrote:Why not? Having a simpler pump before an electric pump would solve the catch 22.

Also, they may have a different pumping speed.
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby Qon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:22 pm

mrvn wrote:
Qon wrote:
mrvn wrote:Doesn't that mean we should have a burner pump, fuel pump and electric pump?

No.

Why not? Having a simpler pump before an electric pump would solve the catch 22.

Fedorrro wrote:
mrvn wrote:Why not? Having a simpler pump before an electric pump would solve the catch 22.

Also, they may have a different pumping speed.

It's ridiculous. Adding an item to the game that is meant to be used once to fill your oil train? Which then only clutters your crafting menu and making it less usable permanently. New burner items in the mid game, seriously? They changed it to non-electric engine for a reason, to avoid this kind of silly temporary setups. Adding a "temporarily useful entity" is even worse than requiring a temporarily useful oil logistics design.

Please stop. No. You DO NOT introduce a catch 22 to motivate the implementation of useless trash items. This is horrifying :o
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby bobingabout » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:56 am

From what I remember, the small pump used to cost an electric engine to build.

This was changed, because needing an electric engine (it being quite far up the tree) made it hard to build, and, well, I never used one at all in my first playthrough because of the costs.
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby Qon » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:16 am

bobingabout wrote:From what I remember, the small pump used to cost an electric engine to build.

This was changed, because needing an electric engine (it being quite far up the tree) made it hard to build, and, well, I never used one at all in my first playthrough because of the costs.


Qon wrote:
Patashu wrote:I think Pump requires only normal engines because of a catch 22:

You have oil but it's only far away from the base. So you'd like to pump it onto a fluid wagon and bring it over by train. But you haven't set up oil processing->lubricant->electric engines, so you can't pump it. So now you have to do something awful (like barrel it or pipe it or produce electric engines on-site).

Yes. The pump actually did use electric engine before, when piping (or barreling) was the only way to transport the oil and pumps were not necessary.
Source: https://wiki.factorio.com/Pump#History

/thread


It has been said before. But yes, correct.
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby mrvn » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:42 am

Qon wrote:
mrvn wrote:
Qon wrote:
mrvn wrote:Doesn't that mean we should have a burner pump, fuel pump and electric pump?

No.

Why not? Having a simpler pump before an electric pump would solve the catch 22.

Fedorrro wrote:
mrvn wrote:Why not? Having a simpler pump before an electric pump would solve the catch 22.

Also, they may have a different pumping speed.

It's ridiculous. Adding an item to the game that is meant to be used once to fill your oil train? Which then only clutters your crafting menu and making it less usable permanently. New burner items in the mid game, seriously? They changed it to non-electric engine for a reason, to avoid this kind of silly temporary setups. Adding a "temporarily useful entity" is even worse than requiring a temporarily useful oil logistics design.

Please stop. No. You DO NOT introduce a catch 22 to motivate the implementation of useless trash items. This is horrifying :o


Why do you think you would only use it once? It doesn't even have to be a burner item.

Actually why does a fuel wagon need a pump at all? It should simply have a liquid connector item that balances the fluid between the wagon and the other side. It wouldn't even need to have a flow direction, simply balance. So you can fill a fluid wagon simply by the pumpjacks producing enough crude oil. Or the water pump producing enough water. Then later, when you want more speed, you add an electric pump.
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby Vladmirangel » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:38 am

but...trains need pumps for fluid wagons to work. its way harder to have to produce separate engines for pumps and trains. At least this way pumps and trains could be utilized at the same tech requirement.
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Re: Pump recipe correction

Postby mrvn » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:16 pm

As an FIY the AAI mods have a burner electrical generator that needs no water and water pumps that need electricity. You need to build at least one burner generator to get the steam engines started and in case of a blackout.
It's made well though and the burner generator only runs when the steam engines don't supply enough power. So one can just leave it as a backup power without wasting fuel on it (it's inefficient).
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