Factorio Forums

Hello.

In 0.18.35 when you attack their nests, biters will first gather in large swarms and then launch a full scale attack. Currently in 0.18.36 biters will all just start going directly, individually, forming lines. The game is significantly easier that way, because they don't overwhelm your defenses.

Maybe something related to the AI change so they don't ignore you when you pass by the swarms inside a vehicle?

Steps to reproduce:

- Start a new game in sandbox
- Go to a far place where biters nests are huge so the effect is more pronouced
- Put an artillery cannon and start attacking the nests.
- Observe biters' behavior when launching the attack

Expected behavior, observed up to 0.18.35: biters launch a counter attack in large swarms.
Behavior @0.18.36: biters start going individually to counter attack.

I recorded a video that makes it very obvious.

Here @0.18.35: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9bj2EUaeu8

And here @0.18.36: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1_WYhMHNF8

Post a link to your save please.

I have edited the main post with a more comprehensive description and steps to reproduce.

dahhakd wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:38 pm

I have edited the main post with a more comprehensive description and steps to reproduce.

Please provide a save game, it is the most effective way of us testing the bug

It is easy enough to reproduce with a new game, but here it goes. The save is at the exact moment and place, you just have to load and quickly zoom out to see the biters.

dahhakd wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:45 pm

The save is at the exact moment and place, you just have to load and quickly zoom out to see the biters.

I checked it at 0.18.36 - yes, this is the behavior with the test map.
But that's not all - I loaded my map - everything is the same - after a shell hits the bitters nest, they run in slender columns without grouping towards the gun.
This is very bad behavior.
The previous one was no better when they are grouped in a huge flock and stand still. This, too, is still quite common for me, but I got used to this behavior, apparently it was intended that way.

Here's a save exhibiting the problem: https://file.io/h2q0DLzUEOLY

The Pathfinder is running at 100ms, 300ms peak (on my hardware anyway)!!!!!! O_O

darklich14 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:51 am

Here's a save exhibiting the problem: https://file.io/h2q0DLzUEOLY

The Pathfinder is running at 100ms, 300ms peak (on my hardware anyway)!!!!!! O_O

Updated URL (link expired?): https://file.io/TNJ3583lYlrK

Every biter is asking for a path. Got an arty upgrade and hit 100ms pathfinder with 300ms peak. Server is a beast and running at 4 ups. It'll go back to 60 once all the auto range is cleared out. Please advise.

2 fps is no fun.

Noticed the same change in attack behaviour when I was in sandbox mode testing out some new perimeter wall designs. I can provide a save file as well, but I think this video demonstrates the difference well.

https://youtu.be/yGvET2KhRKc

The download links are both expired. But is this still happening in .37? I think it should be fixed already.

Edit: I have just been informed that we haven't released .37 yet, which might make it difficult for you to test. Anyway, I already fixed a bug like this that Klonan reported to me directly, so I think this will be fixed in .37.

I had the exact same problem in .36, biters not merging into groups and being stuck pathfinding, nuking the UPS and increasing time spent pathfinding to 30+ UPS.

The issue seems to be entirely gone with .37, biters group up, attack properly, each group has a single pathfinding request, and any UPS drop from mass artillery aggro is from entity update rather than pathfinding. Tested on a couple saves I made that had the issue in .36 and it's gone in all of them.

Oxyd wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:55 pm

The download links are both expired. But is this still happening in .37? I think it should be fixed already.

Edit: I have just been informed that we haven't released .37 yet, which might make it difficult for you to test. Anyway, I already fixed a bug like this that Klonan reported to me directly, so I think this will be fixed in .37.

This does not seem to be fixed in .37:

My test save from .28 loaded into .37 still shows the non-grouping behaviour. The same save loaded in .35 behaves as expected. I haven't looked into it too deeply yet, but will report back if I can reproduce it with a fresh save on .37

Tomiz wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:17 pm

I had the exact same problem in .36, biters not merging into groups and being stuck pathfinding, nuking the UPS and increasing time spent pathfinding to 30+ UPS.

The issue seems to be entirely gone with .37, biters group up, attack properly, each group has a single pathfinding request, and any UPS drop from mass artillery aggro is from entity update rather than pathfinding. Tested on a couple saves I made that had the issue in .36 and it's gone in all of them.

Try a birrage of manual artillery with the show-path-requests turned on. I get every single unit in a nest pathing separately, ups tanks, and pathfinder goes to 10+ms. I've seen it go to 100ms per tick on arty upgrades.

In case people stumble on this older thread, a new one was started. Looks like they'll revert back to the previous behaviour for 0.18.39.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=87297