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Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:17 pm
by Rseding91
Thanks for the report. This is something we're aware of and we do plan on making it work nicer. Simply we've got more important issues to fix at the moment but we will get around to this eventually.

Mods: you can move all other reports into duplicates and have this be the main one for this issue. Thanks.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:01 pm
by mh_
I don't think this is bug is super important, but this is not about nicer, this is about right or wrong.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:26 pm
by milo christiansen
This has been biting me, can things please go back to the way they were?

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:17 am
by Serenity
With underground belts not compressing anymore, sideloading not working either seems to be a huge issue to me

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:34 am
by mh_
It was probably implemented this way because:
• speed improvements (!)
• logic: noone really understood why it is possible to just throw on undergrounds and they end up compressed

There are viable workarounds the throw on undergrounds.


The sideloading issue will be fixed i guess, just look at my bug report a few post up.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:29 am
by diLuca
i just started to compress with a secondary accompanying belt and inserters, works and imo the right way to do according to physics.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:40 am
by impetus maximus
milo christiansen wrote:This has been biting me, can things please go back to the way they were?
Rseding91 wrote:Thanks for the report. This is something we're aware of and we do plan on making it work nicer. Simply we've got more important issues to fix at the moment but we will get around to this eventually.
wube has a lot on their plate at the moment. Christmas came early when they released 0.16 for us all.
putting a lot of pressure on the development team just before the holiday season.

people, lets try and have a little patients please. ;)

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:05 am
by BenSeidel
I for one am enjoying the "bug". It's broken just about EVERY design I use!
So for these experimental releases where we aren't able to sideload or compress belts "easily" we get to design NEW things!!!

Edit: This does not mean that I want it to say around, it's just gives us something new and interesting to do!

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:03 am
by impetus maximus
BenSeidel wrote:I for one am enjoying the "bug". It's broken just about EVERY design I use!
So for these experimental releases where we aren't able to sideload or compress belts "easily" we get to design NEW things!!!
ah, the power of positive thinking. 8-)

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:34 am
by PacifyerGrey
I am a belt maniac (avoid bots at all costs) so this is a major issue to me.
While I have a ton of ideas of how to work around the new compression problems, they all will make simple things look and feel bad.
So for me this issue is totally game breaking and I am fine to wait until it is fixed. Until then I just don't want to play despite of tons of cool stuff added. I don't care about bells and whistles when basic stuff fails to work.
I can live without underground compression but sideloading is just too much.

Re: [16.0] Sideloading no longer compresses belt

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:46 am
by tzwaan
Aidiakapi wrote: *Xterminator has told me splitters do not fully compress a belt all the time, and actually shouldn't be on this list then. I personally do not know..
Xterminator is definitely wrong in that regard. Splitters are always able to fully compress a belt if there's 2 half-full belts incoming.

There used to be some bugs with belts stopping and starting, which could create gaps because of the order the items where updated. When this happened close to a splitter it could seem like the splitter wasn't compressing correctly, but it's not actually the splitter failing.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:49 am
by terror_gnom
Outputting onto a splitter doesnt always achieve compression, the merging itself does.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:50 am
by tzwaan
PacifyerGrey wrote:I am a belt maniac (avoid bots at all costs) so this is a major issue to me.
While I have a ton of ideas of how to work around the new compression problems, they all will make simple things look and feel bad.
So for me this issue is totally game breaking and I am fine to wait until it is fixed. Until then I just don't want to play despite of tons of cool stuff added. I don't care about bells and whistles when basic stuff fails to work.
I can live without underground compression but sideloading is just too much.
Here are two workarounds for those still wanting to sideload yellow belts onto red ones that I know of:




Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading is broken

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:12 pm
by Ironhair
PacifyerGrey wrote:(snip)
I have heard that for the same reason underground belts stopped compressing outputs (can't find links now). I think it is as bad thing as well.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=54600

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:17 pm
by Ironhair
tzwaan wrote:
PacifyerGrey wrote:I am a belt maniac (avoid bots at all costs) so this is a major issue to me.
While I have a ton of ideas of how to work around the new compression problems, they all will make simple things look and feel bad.
So for me this issue is totally game breaking and I am fine to wait until it is fixed. Until then I just don't want to play despite of tons of cool stuff added. I don't care about bells and whistles when basic stuff fails to work.
I can live without underground compression but sideloading is just too much.
Here are two workarounds for those still wanting to sideload yellow belts onto red ones that I know of:



Thanks for the image attachements.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:26 pm
by mh_
tzwaan wrote:
PacifyerGrey wrote:I am a belt maniac (avoid bots at all costs) so this is a major issue to me.
While I have a ton of ideas of how to work around the new compression problems, they all will make simple things look and feel bad.
So for me this issue is totally game breaking and I am fine to wait until it is fixed. Until then I just don't want to play despite of tons of cool stuff added. I don't care about bells and whistles when basic stuff fails to work.
I can live without underground compression but sideloading is just too much.
Here are two workarounds for those still wanting to sideload yellow belts onto red ones that I know of:



As you will get used to the changes you will see that you will get new solutions to the problem that make it look even better, just be a little patient. As a solution to the missing underground-compression I already suggested making shorter furnace arrays and use balancers to compress the belt. This is way more streamlined and beautiful than before.

I will repeat myself here, but I think the sideloading issue is due to a bug I call "item creep" and will be resolved soon. Please see the following bug report for further information:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=54693

However the issues are far away from game-breaking. They are annoying as hell, I give you that, but issues as loosing the ability to select entities or the loss of complete savegames as mentioned in other reports are far more serious.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:16 pm
by ThaPear
tzwaan wrote:Here are two workarounds for those still wanting to sideload yellow belts onto red ones that I know of:
image
image
The issue with this workaround is that it's exactly the same as it used to be for corners, and they fixed that.
I would be inconsistent if they didn't fix this.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:42 pm
by mh_
ThaPear wrote:The issue with this workaround is that it's exactly the same as it used to be for corners, and they fixed that.
I would be inconsistent if they didn't fix this.
Sometimes it is important how things get fixed. If the reason something does not work anymore is a valid one, then it might just stay that way. You don't just change things back because people liked the broken stuff. At least that's what I hope the devs think like.

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:59 am
by JareX
I exclusively registered on the forums to report this as well.

For me this change may not be game breaking but heart breaking. It completely makes the game not fun for me, which saddens me a lot.

Have developers ever considered making inserters automatically compress belts? I don't see any reason for this not to be implemented. And if there is a good reason for inserters to work in a sub-optimal way, then why not creating a separate entity that can compress or sideload belts perfectly (like a "compressor" belt or a "sideloading" belt?

Re: [0.16.0] Sideloading works compeltely different now

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:06 am
by mh_
JareX wrote: For me this change may not be game breaking but heart breaking. It completely makes the game not fun for me, which saddens me a lot.
Might it help saying that this is probably just temporary? We will find ways to cope with the new situation.
JareX wrote: Have developers ever considered making inserters automatically compress belts? I don't see any reason for this not to be implemented. And if there is a good reason for inserters to work in a sub-optimal way, then why not creating a separate entity that can compress or sideload belts perfectly (like a "compressor" belt or a "sideloading" belt?
From what I know about the innerworkings of factorio this is just the most simple way. It should however be said, that you could use a mod for that if you want it. As said before: You can still have 100% compressed belts, you do it differently now.