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[TOGos] [for 0.16] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:28 pm
by Semaphor
I've generated a world with only Iron, copper, and coal. No Oil, Uranium and stone.
Settings: Everything to "Very Low"; All size to "Very Small"; Iron/Copper "Very good", Stone/Coal/Uranium at "Regular", and Oil at "Very Poor".
I ran a few regeneration of these settings and it's consistent.
No mods were used.
Map string:
Code: Select all
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AECfQAEAAAAAAEB/QAEAAAAAAECPQAEzMzMzMzPzPwEzMzMzMzPzPwF
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BAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAFEABZmZmZmZm9j8BMzMzMzMz4z8BMzMzMz
Mz0z8BAAAAAAAACEABAAAAAAAAJEABPAAAAAEeAAAAAcgAAAABBQAAA
AEAAAAAAAAAQAEBAQAAAAAAAFlAAQUAAAABGQAAAAEAAAAAAAAkQAEy
AAAAAQAAAAAAAD5AAWQAAAABmpmZmZmZyT8BMzMzMzMzwz8BMzMzMzM
z0z8BMzMzMzMz0z8BAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAANEABAAAAAAAAPkABAA
AAAAAAFEABAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAACEABCgAAAAFkA
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AAAAAAAA8D8OyRVa<<<
Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:02 am
by TruePikachu
Technically not a bug.
Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:18 am
by Ranakastrasz
You kinda intentionally did this. Uranium and stone are already rather smaller and more sparse than the rest, and you just set them to absolute minimum. Of course you will have trouble finding any.
Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:53 am
by DaveMcW
Semaphor wrote:I've generated a world with only Iron, copper, and coal. No Oil, Uranium and stone.
Confirmed.
Code: Select all
/c game.player.force.chart(game.player.surface, {{x = -10000, y = -10000}, {x = 10000, y = 10000}})
(Wait a few hours for chart to finish)
Code: Select all
/c for _,resource in pairs{"iron-ore", "copper-ore", "coal", "crude-oil", "uranium-ore", "stone"} do game.print(resource.." "..game.player.surface.count_entities_filtered{name=resource}) end
iron-ore 11061
copper-ore 9623
coal 8860
crude-oil 4
uranium-ore 0
stone 0
"Very low Very small" resources should be hard to find, but it is a bug when they are impossible to find.
Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:06 am
by Semaphor
DaveMcW wrote:
"Very low Very small" resources should be hard to find, but it is a bug when they are impossible to find.
Indeed. Something changed in the last minor revision. I've always played my games with those ultra low settings and there have always been oil and uranium, even if they were dozens of chunks away.
Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:31 am
by TruePikachu
Can you test this bug (with the console commands as well) in such a prior version, for comparison purposes?
Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:08 am
by Loewchen
Frequency and size are not independent parameters, setting a resource that spawns small deposits in general to very small size makes it very likely to not spawn in an instance at all, this can result in a map not spawning that resource in realisticly reachable distance.
Re: [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:29 am
by Rseding91
Map gen hasn't changed for quite some time (mid 0.13).
We've tweaked the resources to spawn how we want on "normal". Changing them to the very-low options means there's a good chance they can never spawn. That's not a bug.
Re: [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:34 am
by DaveMcW
You should remove the "very low" option then, since it does the same as "none".
Re: [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:36 am
by Klonan
DaveMcW wrote:You should remove the "very low" option then, since it does the same as "none".
We have some rework on the terrain in progress, I will move this to waiting and make sure it gets looked at for the new system
Re: [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:42 am
by Rseding91
DaveMcW wrote:You should remove the "very low" option then, since it does the same as "none".
It depends entirely on how you base the resource default values. If you take copper ore it just makes it rare. If you take oil - something that's already rare - it makes it incredibly rare.
Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:04 pm
by Ranakastrasz
The line's height is the size, and comparing the first to the third shows a patch that shows up. If you raise the line enough, smaller patches might never show up because they are all below the threshhold. If this is the case, then this is in fact something of a bug.
Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:04 pm
by Semaphor
TruePikachu wrote:Can you test this bug (with the console commands as well) in such a prior version, for comparison purposes?
Loaded up 0.14.23. Looks like the same issue exists. I even teleported out to -12000,-12000 to see if I can get larger resource blobs. Same issue, no oil or stone.
I used RSO mod for ages, which is probably why I never noticed this in the first place.
Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:53 am
by Rseding91
Ranakastrasz wrote:
The line's height is the size, and comparing the first to the third shows a patch that shows up. If you raise the line enough, smaller patches might never show up because they are all below the threshhold. If this is the case, then this is in fact something of a bug.
No, that's how noise based generation works. When you tell it to use a range that's outside what it can actually generate them it does so and you don't get anything generated. None of that is a bug.
That's like saying "when I don't give the car enough gas it won't go up the hill".
Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:53 pm
by Ranakastrasz
So is that what is happening, or is something else causing this issue? I can't tell if you are saying my guess is wrong, or if you are saying it is not a bug.
A depressing number of bugs have been called not-a-bug around here.
Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:28 pm
by TruePikachu
Strictly speaking, going by the discussion about reactor heat pipes, "Not a Bug" means that the implementation is working as designed; it does not necessairily mean that the implementation is the correct one, just that the one used is working correctly.
Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:15 am
by AeonBear
Rseding91 wrote:
No, that's how noise based generation works. When you tell it to use a range that's outside what it can actually generate them it does so and you don't get anything generated. None of that is a bug.
That's like saying "when I don't give the car enough gas it won't go up the hill".
I would say it's not a bug, but certainly misleading. If you set settings to be low then a minimum quota should be ensured. Technically 0 is a low number but if None and Low are both options I would expect low to always be above 0, even at the expense of correctness and randomness.
Re: [TOGos] [for 0.16] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:09 pm
by Ranakastrasz
I still would like to know if this situation is a result of the threshhold being above the peak, so nothing generates.
I mean, yea, the OP intentionally tried to set the amount that spawn as extremely low, but I still think something should visibly spawn.
Ofc oil, stone, and uranium are already the smallest, so I have to wonder if it is just that you are in a void between spawned patches (luck) or if none spawn (threshhold is too high, covering all peaks)
Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:53 pm
by Frightning
Ranakastrasz wrote:So is that what is happening, or is something else causing this issue? I can't tell if you are saying my guess is wrong, or if you are saying it is not a bug.
A depressing number of bugs have been called not-a-bug around here.
Well, technically they are right that it's not a bug in that 'it is working as designed/intended'. But that
does NOT mean it is working as it ought to work. I certainly think it even on very low frequency+size you should still be able to find all resources outside of your start....if you look far and wide enough.
Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:31 pm
by Rseding91
Frightning wrote:Ranakastrasz wrote:So is that what is happening, or is something else causing this issue? I can't tell if you are saying my guess is wrong, or if you are saying it is not a bug.
A depressing number of bugs have been called not-a-bug around here.
Well, technically they are right that it's not a bug in that 'it is working as designed/intended'. But that
does NOT mean it is working as it ought to work. I certainly think it even on very low frequency+size you should still be able to find all resources outside of your start....if you look far and wide enough.
Picture this: a mod developer tweaks his resource so on very-high it spawns 1 ore per 50,000 chunks. Now you put it on very low - do you think you'll ever see it on a given map?
I personally don't consider it worth spending time on because of that exact scenario.