[All versions] [kovarex] Removing walls above resources

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by bobingabout » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:33 am

is 0.10.12 a stable release?
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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by ssilk » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:19 pm

Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by rickyhobby » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:29 am

Perhaps an elegant solution is to seperate the 'mine ore' function (right click) from 'mine (deconstruct) item'. Perhaps leave 'mine (deconstruct) item' as right click and rename to 'deconstruct item', and make 'mine ore' a different key/mouse binding and name it 'mine ore'. 'Deconstruct item' should stay rightclick as it is the more commonly used fuction of the two. 'Mine ore' could be something more obscure as it is barely used in the game.

Another option could be to make seperate tools to do each job. While I don't want to have to swich deconstruction tools all the time, one way would be to make the iron axe able to do what it does now (mine everything), and have the steel axe mine everything but ore. This lines up with the desired functionality suggested in this thread. When you mine ore by hand in the very early game, you have the iron axe. By the time that you are able to get the steel axe, you almost never mine ore by hand. This would be basically equilvant to having a toggle option (as was suggested), but in a more elegant, seamless way.

However, this does make for confusion, as 'the better tool' (steel) should 'do more stuff', and this solution is kinda opposite of that. Perhaps make both axes not able to mine ore, as I bet most of the time, most of the players have mining drills setup before even making an axe, and then never even (purposely) mine ore with an axe. Or very close at least. If one wants to mine ore, they could remove it from their equiped items in the lower right corner, and use the stick to mine ore.

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by Nova » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:40 am

I don't see any advantage in your proposal. The idea of "stucking with mining or deconstructing" sound much better. Er, and iron axe not being able to mine ore? That's a very bad idea. I always mine much ore at the beginning because it's the only possibility. With only one burner miner it's not possible to mine everything at the same time.
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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by rickyhobby » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:18 pm

Nova wrote:I don't see any advantage in your proposal. The idea of "stucking with mining or deconstructing" sound much better.
What is "stucking with mining or deconstructing"? Perhaps this is a poor english translation? (NO offense, if english is not your native language... or perhaps autocorrect?) If your "stucking" meant "seperating" then, yes, that was meant and why it was my main proposal. So you agree with my proposal, and the "disadvantage", in your opinion, was my least recommended alternative, third proposal (the iron axe not being able to mine ore), correct?

Nova wrote:Er, and iron axe not being able to mine ore? That's a very bad idea. I always mine much ore at the beginning because it's the only possibility. With only one burner miner it's not possible to mine everything at the same time.
Well, that was my third suggestion, ahead of having the iron axe mine BOTH ore and items. The second suggestion was to have the iron axe NOT mine ore. Yes, the iron axe does benefit (slightly) to the mining speed of mining that initial ore. BUT do you really have to mine much ore before mining enough to make a second (or third) burner mining drill before having enough to make an iron axe? In reality, if you were to mine just 5 stone, and say 20 coal, you would have enough to create a burner mining drill (in addition to the one that is given to you as you start the game) to mine stone and iron. Then with the stone mined from the stone burner mining drill you could craft burner mining drills to mine coal and copper. So in reality, you only need to mine by hand (with the iron axe or stick) about 25 ore the ENTIRE game. What is the difference in time that it takes to mine 25 ore with the stick vs. with the iron axe? As does that offset the difference/annoyance in the accidental mining of resources when trying to deconstruct items (per the topic of the thread)?


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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by Nova » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:10 pm

rickyhobby wrote:
Nova wrote:I don't see any advantage in your proposal. The idea of "stucking with mining or deconstructing" sound much better.
What is "stucking with mining or deconstructing"? Perhaps this is a poor english translation? (NO offense, if english is not your native language... or perhaps autocorrect?) If your "stucking" meant "seperating" then, yes, that was meant and why it was my main proposal. So you agree with my proposal, and the "disadvantage", in your opinion, was my least recommended alternative, third proposal (the iron axe not being able to mine ore), correct?
No, "stuck" was correct: You are stuck to mining the thing you started with (either buildings or ore) and can't mine the other thing until you get unstuck (release the mouse key and press again). Maybe it's still weird wording, but oh well... :D
It's the idea from the first post, called "mining sessions" there.

rickyhobby wrote:Yes, the iron axe does benefit (slightly) to the mining speed of mining that initial ore. BUT do you really have to mine much ore before mining enough to make a second (or third) burner mining drill before having enough to make an iron axe? In reality, if you were to mine just 5 stone, and say 20 coal, you would have enough to create a burner mining drill (in addition to the one that is given to you as you start the game) to mine stone and iron. Then with the stone mined from the stone burner mining drill you could craft burner mining drills to mine coal and copper. So in reality, you only need to mine by hand (with the iron axe or stick) about 25 ore the ENTIRE game. What is the difference in time that it takes to mine 25 ore with the stick vs. with the iron axe? As does that offset the difference/annoyance in the accidental mining of resources when trying to deconstruct items (per the topic of the thread)?
The difference between "stick" and the iron axe maybe is not huge, but it feels huge. The whole thing is: While your one miner works, you can still mine something yourself. That can reduce the boring first phase of the game until you have automated smelting of iron and copper.
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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by Cdr.MaS » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm

+1

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by GewaltSam » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:05 pm

+1
I'd like that too :)

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by ClayC » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:41 am

+1 good idea, but I have an improvement that I want to share.

Instead of this "session"

You start deconstructing a wall and start to move with any key to move in any direction, the game can note that you are trying to remove a series of objects, trees, walls, buildings, etc.
SO, with this idea, they can just store the first object type in the series and ignore anything else for let's say 500ms which is half a second and if the player wants to stop to mine, he can hold the RMB and stop moving, the game will automatically switch to the ore mining but can instantly continue deconstructing walls.

Hope that it's clear enough so everyone understands :)

Thanks,
Clayton

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by ssilk » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:04 pm

Side note: this thread is sticky, cause it "should not be forgotten to be implemented". In other words: nice, that you like it, but it's already clear, that it will be implemented at any time.
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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by Nova » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:24 pm

We can still discuss the exact implemention details. It may be accepted by the devs, but that doesn't mean that the details are already perfect. Okay, I prefer "my" idea, but well... :D
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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by immibis » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:59 am

A similar thing would also be helpful for logistics/construction bots.

If I start mining a building, and then a robot flies under the cursor, I don't want to mine the robot.

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by Garm » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:19 am

Multiple tool suggestion sounds quite plausible:

- keep 2 existing tools as is (maybe change the names)
- add "advanced" tools that only do one task but do it better than current steel axe (by a bit)

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by Night_Ange1 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:22 pm

Idk if it's getting too far off topic, but how about specialized tools.

Beginning we start with basic jack of all trades tool (iron axe) then move to a more advanced one (steel axe) Late game there are 3 specialized tool which "harvest" their specialty almost instantly 1 each for trees/buildings/ores.

Buildings - I would like to be able to harvest walls and turrets as fast as I harvest belts
Trees - walking through a forest cutting trees slows you to a pace equal to shooting a weapon
Ores - fast as a smart inserter picking it off the belt and into a chest.

Each would take processing units and alien artifacts and maybe modules (definitely end game tools)

P.S. should this get a new thread?

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by darksunrise957 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:58 am

+1 Makes sense!

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by CreeperDaReeper » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:59 am

Night_Ange1 wrote:Idk if it's getting too far off topic, but how about specialized tools.
Beginning we start with basic jack of all trades tool (iron axe) then move to a more advanced one (steel axe) Late game there are 3 specialized tool which "harvest" their specialty almost instantly 1 each for trees/buildings/ores.
Buildings - I would like to be able to harvest walls and turrets as fast as I harvest belts
Trees - walking through a forest cutting trees slows you to a pace equal to shooting a weapon
Ores - fast as a smart inserter picking it off the belt and into a chest.
Each would take processing units and alien artifacts and maybe modules (definitely end game tools)
P.S. should this get a new thread?
I like the way you think! As for making a new thread for it, only if you plan on making it a mod suggestion.

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by AndrewGeil » Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:02 pm

DaveMcW wrote:+1, chopping trees above resources is what annoys me.
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Yeah, trees are pointless after about 2mins of gameplay.

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by mike_smit » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:40 pm

AndrewGeil wrote:
DaveMcW wrote:+1, chopping trees above resources is what annoys me.
say hello to my little friend (shotgun)

Yeah, trees are pointless after about 2mins of gameplay.
Using robots is usefull also. however you do end up with a milion wood as you cannot delete items

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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by Cordylus » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:46 pm

mike_smit wrote: however you do end up with a milion wood as you cannot delete items
Let's burn it all!
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Re: Removing walls above resources

Post by provet » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:48 pm

+1

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